Hosts of 10 Lessons it Took Me 50 Years to Learn

Ten Lessons – Recap Ep 5-8

In this unique episode the four of us, Dr. Duff Watkins, Siebe Vanderzee, Jeffery Wang, and Robert Hossary will recap the previous episodes and share with you, our audience, what we found most fascinating about our guests.  We will be discussing our interviews with André Alphonso, Jack Milligan, Rod Mewing and Michael Kelly. Join us and hear what we learned from our guests.

About Us

Between us we have over 200 years of combined experience in business and life. We have all lived and worked in multiple countries and cultures. It is that experience that we share with you through our podcast.

We came together on this project when we were discussing how valuable the lessons that we now know would have been to our younger selves.

We asked some of the sages and gurus that we know in our network if they would be willing to pass on their lessons to the world through our interviews and it was no surprise that they all readily agreed.

So we embarked on this journey of interviewing and documenting important lessons from these leaders of industry, academics, celebrities and run of the mill successful people so that their wisdom can be shared with you.

We know that there are somethings with which you will agree with and some that you will not. After all isn’t that what life is all about?


Jeffery Wang: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to 10 Lessons it Took Me 50 Years to Learn. Wisdom for the next generation. This episode is a review where the four of us, Dr. Duff Watkins, Siebe Van Der Zee, Robert Hossary our producer and me, Jeffrey Wang. We will be reviewing the previous episodes and telling you, our audience, what we found most fascinating about the wisdom of our guests.

This episode, we’ll be reviewing four of our guests, Andre Alphonso, Jack Milligan, Rod Mewing and Michael Kelly. Let’s start with Andre Alphonso and I’ll start with Duff senior as you interviewed him.

Duff Watkins: [00:00:39] The things that interested me about what Andre said really resonated, and then he recommended people taking acting courses or developing acting skills.

And I’ve said this a million times when you’re in a business role, you don many roles, and those roles are different. No role is beyond you. But lots of roles are stretches. In other words, you learn how to be a CFO. You learn how to be a CEO. You learn how to act like one. And that’s one of his core businesses teaching people about their presence.

So that made a lot of sense to me. And then he also talked about owning your mistakes now. I mean, I know that seems kind of bleeding obvious, but it took me about 50 years to understand it’s okay to own your mistakes and accept and just let the chips fall where they may, you know,

Robert Hossary: [00:01:23] Having worked with you and Andre on a previous podcast, this one was even more enlightening for me.

The lesson that got through loud and clear was basically the title of the episode, which is collect adventures and not things. And yes, it comes from a place from Andre where, you know, where he’s been close to death after a heart attack. The reason that it rang true with me is because when I worked in the U S I had all my possessions back here in Australia, but I was there and I didn’t miss them.

And I collected adventures during those five years, I worked in the U S and I think that’s what it’s all about. It changes your perspective. So that was a very, very powerful and strong message for me anyway.

Jeffery Wang: [00:02:12] And what about you Siebe?

Siebe Van Der Zee: [00:02:13] Well, I was just gonna say, how about banish, psychic vampires?

Duff Watkins: [00:02:21] I said it for years, I’m anti vampire.  Build the wall. That’s what I say Siebe.

Siebe Van Der Zee: [00:02:26] But absolutely what I really liked about it was that as he was talking about, there’s always at least one critic in the audience. And I remember when I did group training typically to feedback after the training program was very positive because people connect to the person in front of them and you talk to them for sometimes a whole day, whatever it may be.

But there was always one person that had a different opinion and sometimes more than one person. And you say, well, everybody liked it, but this one person didn’t like it. Why is that? Blah, blah, blah. And over time, my mindset changed, and it is very much in connection also with this lesson because I was expecting at least one or two critics.

And if someone came back with negative feedback to myself, I would say, ah, there he is that’s the one. And. If you count on the fact that there’s going to be some criticism and let’s be reasonable, that’s bound to happen, you are psychologically much better prepared for that. So I thought that was very helpful to see that if I can add also a talked about the Eisenhower matrix and I know we understand what that means, but how do you look at issues that are urgent or important and how you have to divide it up? Which is not always easy. It looks very easy, but I thought as a way to plan ahead and be able to get yourself under control, to break it down in line with the Eisenhower matrix. I’m very glad he brought that up.

Jeffery Wang: [00:04:07] Absolutely. I think the key to that Eisenhower matrix is deciding what seems own three, which is the stuff that’s urgent, but not important. Right? Which means that at the point of view, coming into your consciousness, you have to decide what are the things you need to let burn.

And that is probably the hardest part, especially for a young person, because when you’re young and you’re starting out in your career, often you can’t decipher between your priorities versus somebody else’s priorities. And that I think is the key to understanding how to use that Eisenhower matrix effectively.

So for me personally, the lesson that really resonated with me was lesson number 10, burn your masks. And I think a lot of that has to do with my cultural background. So Andre being of Indian descent, having grown up in the country, outside of the countries, Birth that I completely identify with.

And for the longest time I’ve been trying to just fit in and disappear into the background. And one of the most effective methods that we found was to create a persona or a mask as, as Andre calls it in order to fit in the problem is that when you’ve been wearing that mask for so long, and that’s the purpose of your life, you lose a bit of yourself.

And what I don’t realize until much later on in probably my late thirties. Is that when you’re wearing a mask you’re not acting authentically. And when you don’t have that authenticity, you don’t have that person’s or power that Andre talks about. And it is something that I think a lot of what we call the third culture, children, you know, people who grew up in another culture other than the one of their birth, they all struggle with it’s finding that identity.

But what I found particularly enlightening about Andre’s approach is that discovery of who he really is. And once he embraced it, how much power that is gave him. So that is certainly a lesson that took me a long time to learn as well, probably only just in the last couple of years.

Robert Hossary: [00:06:02] Well also being someone who was born outside of this country. I understand exactly what you’re saying.

Duff Watkins: [00:06:10] We all are if you want to get right down to it.

Robert Hossary: [00:06:12] This is true. This is true, but I understand exactly what you’re saying growing up. You want to fit in. I get that, but I’m also reminded of a lesson from Dr. Duff Watkins from many years ago. If you want to play the game, you’ve got to wear the uniform.

So if you want to be a CEO, you’ve got to wear the uniform of a CEO and that in itself is a type of mask. So I do understand the stripping, away and being authentic, but I also understand there are times when you have to put on a persona that fits. So, while I agree with Andre, we have to make sure that we draw that distinction between being inauthentic. And wearing the uniform of the job.

Jeffery Wang: [00:07:02] I agree that you have to wear the uniform, but there are a set of rules that you have to abide by in terms of what the rules of the game are a sporting analogy. If I may use it, is that of course you have to wear the uniform of the sport that you’re playing in.

However, you don’t change your playing style in order to suit the team. Right. So, so really if you’re forward, you play as a forward, you’re a guard you play as a guard and you got to play to your strengths. And what Andre made me realize is that they are things which are inherently to my strength, which is the way that I was brought up in my culture.

So, for example, I believe that my culture taught me a certain set of values, which are very incredibly important in business. And that’s the sort of things that I’d like to play to my strengths. You know, I might not be the best presenter. That’ll knock your socks off. But I can ingrain the integrity and the trust that you need for you to do business with in the long-term.

Yeah. That’s what I mean by removing your masks.

Robert Hossary: [00:08:06] Yeah, no, I agree. I just wanted to, for our audience to make sure that we had that distinction, that people don’t think that they can just be assholes if they aren’t assholes.

Jeffery Wang: [00:08:18] Awesome. So, moving on, we also have Jack Milligan. Now we’ll start with Siebe.  What did you find most enlightening about your conversation with Jack?

Siebe Van Der Zee: [00:08:28] There were many aspects. I refer to him as the guru of human resources. That’s a big title, right. But if you look at his credentials, as far as training HR executives for over 20 years and the recognition that he has received from the society for human resource management. SHRM. That’s impressive. As far as his background, one of the lessons, lesson number three, when people report to you hire them with care, treat them with honor. And it really goes back to the individual Jack Milligan, but you got to treat people with respect, and you got to treat them with honor. The more you rise in an organization, the more you realize that you become dependent on the people below you in the organization.

And one of the items that he mentioned with that particular lesson, do your performance reviews on time, and you can think, well, that’s a little detail. Why is that a big issue? But it is really an issue of respect and understanding that it is important when you work somewhere that you do get a performance review as it is scheduled.

Jeffery Wang: [00:09:38] Absolutely.

Robert Hossary: [00:09:39] Rob?

The one thing about Jack it’s a threefer. So, every one of his lessons, there were three lessons and you had to listen carefully to get it. The one that stuck out was something that I’ve been practicing for a while, but it was nice to hear it said this way. Prepare, anticipate, and think. Yeah. I mean, three very simple words, but if you run all of your daily activities like that you prepare, you anticipate and you think. I think you’ll be successful in everything that you do. It was very enlightening. The other one that, that, that got me, that you’ve got to be a developer of human talent. So, anyone who supervisors or managers, other people, it’s your job to prepare these people to move on, to be better, but you’ve got to leave them better than you found them. And that’s what I took out of what Jack said there. So, I really enjoyed listening to Jack is someone who talks about how to manage people.

Duff Watkins: [00:10:45] I reckon the best thing Jack said for me was it wasn’t even one of the lessons. He said it in the opening minutes, he was talking about his early career. He said you’ve got to figure out where you work best what environment you need. And then you just kind of slid that in there. I’m going to say that again for younger people, you need to figure out what environment in which you can operate flourish, survive blossom, because it’s not every environment. And you can spend a long time doing that.

You will, you’ll discover it by experiencing places where you don’t fit in. And for example, I was in the corporate world and there was just a lot of aspects about the corporate world where I just did not fit in.

Jeffery Wang: [00:11:26] The problem is you don’t know what you don’t know. Like you said, you have to experience what you don’t like before, you know, where you fit in. And without the frame of reference, how can a young person know what suits them?

Duff Watkins: [00:11:41] You start somewhere, anywhere you start at zero, and then it doesn’t always work out. I mean, the corporate environment didn’t really suit me. Look at me now I worked for a real asshole because I’m self-employed so there’s no guarantee of success in these things.

You know, you just try to find where you fit in as best you can.

Siebe Van Der Zee: [00:11:56] I thought what was interesting when Jack talked about his first job, where he was working and getting the job done, but he was kind of working in debasements by himself and he realized that was not the place for him later in his career when he was in a corporate function and got promoted to, I guess he said higher floors in the building.

He kind of missed that connection to the people that actually do the work. So, it’s interesting in the example that Jack made the two sides. When you start out, you begin your career, and you realize maybe that’s not the right job for me or the right environment. And then yet later learning careers, learning things, being successful, getting promoted.

Perhaps to a point where in this case, Jack said, that’s not really what I want either. I want to make sure I stay connected to the people directly.

Jeffery Wang: [00:12:51] The one thing that stood out to me about that first job that you spoke about in Jack’s a start started his career is how quickly he figured out that it wasn’t for him.

I think it was only, it was only two weeks or three weeks. For me, it’d be probably five years before I started complaining. That’s the lesson I took out of that figure that out quickly. But the lesson that stood out to me, it’s really interesting how. Every episode. So far, the lesson that stood out to each of us is a different one, but for me, it was communicating with crystal clarity, what you want and expect, and that tends to happen.

Now, this one I really liked because again, this is not one that comes natural to me, right in the culture that I was brought up in. We were very indirect. So, when you’re asking people to do something, you almost have to go in a roundabout way in order to not seem rude. In the indirect culture, you learn how to read between the lines.

The problem is when the person that’s been plucked out of their indirect culture and put into a culture that is more direct in their communications, you become a very terrible, I suppose, not a terrible leader, but a terrible communicator of instructions. In fact, I struggled. There’s a psychological barrier. I struggle with asking for help for a long time. But what I realized is that over time that I have to become better at communicating in the way that the people I’m communicating to prefers in the way that they’d like to be communicated to. And in that particular case, it’s got to be simple. It’s got to be direct and there’s got to be clear when you do that things do happen.

Siebe Van Der Zee: [00:14:22] I think Jeffrey, that’s a very important point as you’re raising how, of course behavior and what we think is quote unquote, right. Will also largely depend on the country or the culture in which we are operating. And we have to accept the fact that there are of course, many, many differences and what works well in one country doesn’t necessarily work in that other country, but that’s part of my list and we’ll get to that.

Jeffery Wang: [00:14:51] Awesome. So next up, we’ve got some Rod Mewing.

Duff Watkins: [00:14:59] Well, Rod Mewing, when I saw that interview, I didn’t know who he was. And then I realized, I did know, he was Rod Mewing has been a senior executive in Australia for so long.

And he was a senior executive at such a young age. I remember when I listened to Jeff and I read Rod’s book back in the eighties. This is the first management lesson I ever received is from that book. He didn’t say this on the podcast. So, this is. Fresh information. He wrote be satisfied the people that work for you do 80% of what you expect. 80% not 100.

80 will do. 80 is fine. And that was etched in my heart and mind. That was my first management lesson and that, so that was one. But at the time when he wrote that book, he was the managing director of a very large premier, a department store in Australia. He said, think like a customer.

Yeah. Okay. Now that sounds what common, but the thing is you don’t because a customer doesn’t think like you, they think like them, so you have to shift, you have to think like a customer. And I can remember reading another book where I had to analyze business process. When I realized that I analyzed every business process that I was doing at the time, and I realized 80% of it was bullshit.

That was stuff that suited me. But the customer was not interested in at all. And they were just interested in the results. I’ve transmogrified my entire business process. Based on that, just you got to learn to think like about the customer, because it doesn’t seem to come naturally. But the other thing, the final thing Jeff is, and you said this on the podcast, you said that when you worked for that large telephone company, you can cut through all the bullshit and the red tape, the bureaucracy, if you just told them, well, this is what the customer wants.

This is a better customer service. And that was kind of telling as well, because the senior ups in the business do understand they do want to provide what the customer wants, but they don’t always know how or when to do it. So, it’s guys like you, you know, the worker bees gotta be able to point out to them how to do that.

So that was a bit of wisdom for me from you.

Robert Hossary: [00:17:06] I’ll back up that example. I was actually living in another state roughly about the time you were with Telstra and David Thodey, who ran Telstra at the time, he was the CEO. And I complained on the phone about a service. They fixed it immediately because that was the case from the top.

And that just lived up to what you were talking about on the podcast. What Rod was saying, the culture in that organization at the time. I think it’s shifted now. I don’t think it’s the same, but. It made a huge difference. It turned me into an advocate for that business, for the period that they were doing that.

And I would promote them. I wouldn’t promote them now because I don’t think they’re that good anymore. But you know, it was a very powerful lesson and point that you made. So I agree with Duff on that. The thing about Rod with me was, again, something that hit me personally, because I experienced it recently is businesses not personal.

Don’t take this crap personally, it’s a job it’s business. It has nothing to do with you as a human being. It has to do with business. And I love that lesson. I thought we don’t say that anywhere near enough in the corporate world today, that is just business. You hear it a lot and gangster movies. I just say personal, you know, but we should be saying more of it in business.

Siebe Van Der Zee: [00:18:40] I liked that lesson a lot as well. Robert business, it’s not personal, having tough conversations with people. And I learned that you have to be straight forward. If you have bad news and you sit down with that individual and you say, you know, I hate to do this. I feel really bad and well, what is it? I learned that if you have to let people go from an organization, you have to tell them, and then important.

Sit back and listen and see how that individual response it’s very, very important because emotions can take off in all kinds of directions. Now what I liked again, Jeffrey, you asked a question about loyalty because it’s one thing to be the leader and well be like each other, but I gotta be tough because ultimately, I’m the boss, et cetera.

And you brought up that issue from loyalty because that’s, I think we all agree is extremely important to make sure you have loyalty and that you give loyalty. And in his response, he talked about the separation. Between business and personal relationships and at the same time, and that’s why I don’t have a finite answer.

He said, it’s a very fine line, because if you are working with people that you like, and you have to give them bad news, yes, you can prepare your mind to be straight forward, you know, and business like, but it’s still a person that you like and feel comfortable with. So, it is a very fine line. And these are some preparation. But you are the boss. You have to make those decisions.

Jeffery Wang: [00:20:18] What we tend to think about when we think about loyalty is that you don’t want to make those decisions that you have to make to someone you like. Right. But the reverse is also true. And I quote the godfather. Don’t hate your enemies. Because it impairs your judgment.

And so sometimes you make these emotional decisions in business that ultimately is the wrong lines because you have strong opinions. Whether you like someone, you hate someone. And sometimes that’s just the wrong decisions. And that’s why that listen, business is not personal. It’s such a powerful. And the one that really jumped out at me from Rod is lesson number five.

That consistency is the key to effective team leadership. Now that one. And I’ll also refer to Rob’s reference about David Thodey, because I believe that he’s one of those leaders at the time at the helm he’s values are so consistent that everybody knew exactly what he was about from the top of the organization down to the very bottom.

Robert Hossary: [00:21:16] Even people outside the organization.

I can’t tell you how many times I wrote to him and he wrote back. You know, directly, so you’re right. The consistency of his leadership was just within and without the organization as well.

Jeffery Wang: [00:21:31] That’s right. And it’s so well, communicated customer is at the center of everything we did at Telstra at the time.

And because we had that frame of reference, we knew which way it was up. It was easy to make decisions. It was easy to delegate. It was easy for people to be able to make those decisions in those moments of truths. Right. And, and so that in my head is probably an example of good leadership. Now, Rod also talked about leaders that have different values and priorities that changes day by day.

And what it does is it absolutely paralyzes the people underneath them. So, they can’t make those decisions. They always have to hedge. They always have to watch their backs and all that. And. Yeah, problem with that obviously then is that the organization cannot function as effectively as it should there was something that was new to me, that particular concept, how important that consistency of values in leadership is.

Siebe Van Der Zee: [00:22:25] You raised two points Jeffrey in the interview on that point, lesson number five, consistency is the key to effective team leadership.

Is there room for growth? Right because consistency could mean that it all stays the same. And I thought that question was very helpful. And in his response, he said, yes, of course there’s room for growth, but the basic principles do not change. And I think that’s important as well, that when we talk about consistency, that doesn’t mean everything will stay to stay from here to forever.

You adjust, but the basic principles stay the same.

Jeffery Wang: [00:23:03] Absolutely. You can grow from a five-year-old to 50-year-old, but your DNA is still the same, right?

Siebe Van Der Zee: [00:23:10] That’s a good example. And there are many more. Yes.

Jeffery Wang: [00:23:12] Yep. So next up we have Michael Kelly, the communications expert. Would you like to give us your thoughts on this one Duff?

Duff Watkins: [00:23:22] In Australia. He’s one of the premier, I suppose, coaches about communication and presence and works with a lot of senior businesspeople. But a couple of things he said, anytime you speak, you’re auditioning for leadership. Another way of saying to people in corporations, rising executives, the camera is always on you.

That’s a good point to learn. The other thing he talks about his voice. He’s a voice coach is one of the. Things he does. And that reminded me of Zig Ziglar. You know, the old sales guru who is a legend. And he said, anybody who is in business must realize that their voice is an instrument, and it needs to be trained or developed, or in other words, how you sound needs to be, you need to pay some attention to that. And he was continually amazed at how people did not take advantage of that or did not pay it any attention. Michael Kelly does. The other thing that Michael said that I really liked is that all agreements are with yourself. All agreements. Start with yourself.

That’s the person you need to keep your agreements with

Jeffery Wang: [00:24:24] Robert.

Robert Hossary: [00:24:25] We’ve known Michael for a long time. I have a great deal of time and respect for the man. And he’s very generous with his time as well. And this podcast was a joy for me to listen to because I really enjoy listening to Michael, get hopping back to my sales roots.

Simplicity sells. And that was his lesson. Number 10. There’s just nothing more to say about that. You got to keep your message simple and whatever you’re doing, you’re going to communicate that to someone else. And it goes back to something. I think that rod said, which is the consistency and clarity and all of that.

All of our speakers would say something similar. And it’s keep it simple. Simplicity sells in communication. If you keep your message simple, it’ll get across. And it really was a good one. The other one Duff’s already mentioned, which I really liked it. Every agreement is with yourself. Love that one.

Siebe Van Der Zee: [00:25:21] Well, I like to add. Two because they kind of flow into each other. I think lesson number six, complete the task in front of you and lesson number seven, maximize the number of positive impressions you leave. And, and he gives a number of examples. One is when they had a guest, and they were trying to get that person’s business and into parking lot.

Apparently, they put the name of the guest on a sign and it was just a little issue, but apparently that guest ended up deciding, Hey, if you go to that extent, I want your business. And there was no guaranteed. That was not necessarily the plan, but if you think about what else can I do? What else can I make this special in that sense?

And he talks about aim for excellence and elegance. I thought that was very helpful to look at now maximize the number of positive impressions you leave that sort of. Doing what lesson number six tells you and keep adding to it. Keep doing more. You’re always sending impressions. He was talking about, which is true.

We’re all sending messages every single day. He talked about some of the non-verbal training that he does as far as non-verbal communication. What is your face signaling? Does someone look dazed or distracted or. Are they smiling, it sends a message? And many times, that person may not even be aware of the signal they are sending out.

And I thought that was helpful if you operate in public. I had years ago when I served as the honorary counsel of the Netherlands, someone gave me the advice that if they take a picture of you and perhaps at a reception, make sure you do not have a glass with alcohol in your hands. And the reason is that that picture may be used in a different situation, perhaps with some bad news, somebody passed away there was an accident something happened, and they put a picture up there and we’re all sending, Hey, Cheers. It seems extreme. I learned that lesson in the early 1990s and I kept it with me because you have to be prepared how people interpret that do think about the positive impressions and the opportunities, we all have to make positive impressions. I thought that was very helpful.

Robert Hossary: [00:27:43] Don’t you love the way that. What Andre said works in with what Rod said works in with what Michael said works in with what Jack said. They all seem to fit each other, which is again, if you go to our previous four episodes, you will find messages from Ligia and from Duff himself from a lot of our guests that are in sync with each other, because that’s what we’re all about. That’s what took us 50 years to learn. And you will see that this wisdom is so powerful. Do you notice that it’s the people who want the world to be better, who are sharing this information? And I just love the way that we’re getting the same messages. They’re all different lessons, similar messages from all of our guests. I think it’s wonderful and very reinforcing.

Jeffery Wang: [00:28:39] All right. Well, I’ll throw a spanner in the works then, because my, my take on Michael’s actually, I agree with most of it, especially the part about the voice. Having had a bit of experience with theater back in the earlier days, and you realize how important voice is and when you actually witnessed some very convincing actors.

Well, you realize later on when we were just idiots or take lesson number nine,

Robert Hossary: [00:29:04] both Duff and I have an IMDB page, so be careful.

Jeffery Wang: [00:29:13] Well, may I compliment you on your voice? Yeah. Okay, so lesson number nine. Now this is the one that really, I found challenging. So lesson number nine was projects certainty. Now this is the one I had real trouble with because I hate the idea of fake it till you make it. And I don’t know if it’s exactly what he meant.

If you were a leader. Whether you’re sure of what the outcome will be or not. You always have to project certainty. Now I can understand that it had to be done, especially in a particular situation. You may be in the battle. There may be time limitations, do things that you may have to do if you’re in an emergency situation.

But there is a certain kind of, I suppose, there’s a certain kind of value that you’re projecting in terms of, of each.

Duff Watkins: [00:29:59] Jeff I think he meant conviction, because I discussed that with him. I think he meant conviction when he said that, because I questioned that as well. And that made me think of a story. Then when I interviewed a guy who was in the I’m going to get these countries mixed up, but he was in the Peruvian air force and he was trained in the U S and he was on a mission and they had dropped into I’m going to make up country cause I don’t remember another country and South America behind enemy lines. And I said, enemy lines at night, they parachuted in and he was an officer who was the captain. I said, Well, I don’t understand what’s the big deal. And he said, because we weren’t supposed to be there. Right. It was illegal. You know, we were fighting guerrillas and he said they were lost.

They didn’t land where they’re supposed to be. And he said, when you’re an officer, you can’t say, well, fellas, where are we? Anybody got any ideas? He said, you know, they’re looking at you and you’re supposed to know, you’re supposed to know. You have to have an idea. And I, I read a lot of military history and you can’t just say, well, your guess is as good as mine fellas this to have a, you know, show of hands that doesn’t work, all your training is to convey some sort of sense of conviction about what the next step is.

I think that’s what Michael was trying to say. I think.

Siebe Van Der Zee: [00:31:15] A good point. What I picked up from Michael was you need to have a plan when you are a leader. And that’s kinda what I hear Duff when you’re saying, okay, it was unexpected and perhaps mistakes were made. But you got to go with that, and you have to have that, call it leadership, even if you are thinking, you know, where are we, what are we doing?

How are we going to solve it, but have a plan? And I think that’s, that’s the important part of preparation. And it creates that level of certainty.

Jeffery Wang: [00:31:46] How much of that information. Can you share with your followers? You know, I like to think that a humble leader, who’s honest about the limitations of what they know can share the situation as is, for example, look, I don’t know if this is going to work, but I’m sure we’ll figure it out.

Is that what you mean by having conviction rather than saying, Hey, this is going to work. I guarantee you that.

Duff Watkins: [00:32:08] Well, you know, certitude is not really ever possible. Anyway, I quibbled with Michael when he used that word, because I just don’t think it’s anybody and I need backed it up. If you look at the transcript, he said, people expect leaders, they want leaders, and this is not necessarily a good thing, by the way, they expect a leader to present a degree of authority or conviction or assertive to whatever the word is.

And that causes a lot of problems in my opinion. I think I agree with you there. However, you don’t want to see a Flomax up there that it’s clueless. It has no plan. That’s inflexible that doesn’t help the continual adaptation. And we calibrating to reality, I think is pretty important. And I think when we look around the politics around the world, the countries that are suffering or led by supposedly leaders who just can’t accommodate reality.

Siebe Van Der Zee: [00:32:52] If you think about risk management in business, you have to think about anything that could potentially go wrong. You don’t know. And some of it, you will never experience not realize it, but you’ve got to be prepared in case something happened. If you think about the pandemic that is taking place all over the world.

It truly comes as a surprise in my mind that we, the world, we were not better prepared than we were because we’ve had pandemics before, and we will have them after COVID again. And the impacts, of course, as we all know, It’s every person all over the globe. And so that certainty is not to say I have a solution for everything, but at least if something happens and even if it is something you did not expect at all, there has to be a plan B or a plan C whatever you want to call it.

Robert Hossary: [00:33:50] Well, that’s fantastic. I’m just to let the audience know. Now next four podcasts are going to be Alan Kilfoyle, who is a business coach who will shares his 10 lessons that took him 50 years to learn Duff will be interviewing Garry Browne, who was a ex CEO and now I think a chairman of a large international trading company here in Australia, Jeff will be interviewing the Narelle Hooper, who is one of Australia’s leading journalists and has been involved in many business ventures for a long time. We’ll be talking to Brad, Casper. Siebe give us a quick rundown on Brad.

Siebe Van Der Zee: [00:34:27] Oh, wow. Brad is a great individual. He worked for some of the big firms like Proctor and Gamble. Also, outside of the United States, he worked for the Dial Corporation, which was taken over by Henkel from Germany.

He became the president of the Phoenix suns, the basketball team. He has an advertising marketing agency, heart and soul, and he is helping small middle-sized companies with their branding.

Robert Hossary: [00:34:54] And they’re our next full podcast coming up.

Duff Watkins: [00:34:56] But meanwhile, so you listeners or viewers out there, please contact us.

We want to hear what you want. What do you want to hear? What sort of questions do you have? What sort of wisdom do you have to offer? What sort of guests would you like us to talk to? You can contact us the email addresses that’s

Jeffery Wang: [00:35:18] You’ve been listening to the international podcast of 10 Lessons it Took Me 50 Years to Learn produced by Robert Hossary and sponsored by the professional development forum. PDF provides webinars, social media discussions, podcast, parties, anything you want, anything you need for more information, please visit

Oh, did I mention that? It’s all free. Thank you for listening and stay safe, everyone.







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