James Badman – Someone has done it before you.  Find them, learn from them

James Badman
James Badman is a published Academic, Entrepreneur, Director and discusses why you shouldn’t “be afraid to ask for help”, that “You should never give up on your passion”, why “you should put yourself out there” and more. Hosted by Siebe Van Der Zee.

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About James Badman

James Badman is highly dedicated to his work in the animal industry. He has developed expertise in business administration, including state and federal permitting, USDA licensing, and the recruiting and training of animal care staff. He is the Associate Director for the Department of Animal Care and Technologies at Arizona State University where he has worked for over 25 years. He has founded and established several businesses including the Red Mountain Conservation and Education Center since 2002, and the USDA licensed exotic animal pet store, WildSide Pets, from 2007 to 2022, and co-founder of the Phoenix Reptile Expo with partner Drew Rheinhardt.

James’ involvement within the animal industry is rooted in his lifelong passion for animals, which includes working with a wide range of species from tortoises to warthogs.

Episode Notes

04:41 Lesson 1: Value friendships
07:33 Lesson 2: Never give up on your passion, even if it must be sidelined for a minute
10:18 Lesson 3: Someone has done it before you. Find them, learn from them.
14:31 Lesson 4: Don’t be afraid to ask for help
20:01 Lesson 5: We all report to someone
22:49 Affiliate Break
23:29 Lesson 6: You are only on top for so long, so always look to improve or reinvent yourself
25:35 Lesson 7: Remember that even when things are not going well, there is a lesson to be learned
27:53 Lesson 8: Put yourself out there
30:55 Lesson 9: You have to work to be happy
33:07 Lesson 10: Give back, when you can

James Badman – Someone has done it before you. Find them, learn from them.

[00:00:08] Siebe Van Der Zee: Hello and welcome to our program, 10 Lessons Learned, where we talk to interesting people from all over the world about their interesting experiences and the lessons they have learned. My name is Siebe Van Der Zee, and I’m your host. I am based in Phoenix, Arizona, in the beautiful Grand Canyon State, where I’m also known as the Dutchman in the desert.

[00:00:31] Siebe Van Der Zee: Our guest today is James Badman. James Badman offers 30 years of experience in animal management. in a variety of settings and as a successful business owner, he serves as the Associate Director of Facilities and Operations at Arizona State University at the Department of Animal Care and Technologies.

[00:00:52] Siebe Van Der Zee: His strong dedication to work within the animal industry is rooted in his lifelong passion for animals, which includes working with a wide range of animals from tortoises to warthogs. James possesses expert knowledge. and skills in all facets of exotic animal licensing, handling, management, breeding, and transport.

[00:01:13] Siebe Van Der Zee: As an entrepreneur, he founded and established three businesses, including Red Mountain Conservation and Education Center, a USDA Department of Agriculture, a USDA licensed exotic animal pet store named Wild Side Pets, and he managed the Phoenix Reptile Expo, one of the largest reptile expositions in the United States.

[00:01:33] Siebe Van Der Zee: You can learn more about James Badman on our website. 10lessonslearned. com.

[00:01:40] Siebe Van Der Zee: Hello, James. Thank you for joining us today.

[00:01:43] James Badman: Hi, Siebe. Thank you for having me.

[00:01:44] Siebe Van Der Zee: Well, it’s great to have you on this episode. Your wisdom has a lot to do with animals, and I have to say, I like animals. I have a dog and many people like dogs and cats.

[00:01:56] Siebe Van Der Zee: In your case, your focus is on exotic animals and reptiles. That’s serious business. Where is that passion coming from?

[00:02:05] James Badman: it’s been a lifelong passion. I mean, since I was a kid, I’ve always been, interested in, working with animals and, going out in nature, seeing them, you know, getting the opportunity to work directly with them, house them.

[00:02:18] James Badman: And then, as I got older, the fascination really became about, breeding them, and long-term maintenance of them in captivity.

[00:02:25] Siebe Van Der Zee: It’s fascinating and we’ll talk more about it as we go through this episode, but do you have any favorite animals, because you deal with so many.

[00:02:34] Siebe Van Der Zee: Do you have a favorite or more than one favorite perhaps?

[00:02:37] James Badman: Absolutely. I get asked that question a lot because I work with a lot of animals, and it seems so diverse. obviously, I’ve had a lifelong passion with tortoises. I, really. have, just had a fascination with them since I was young, um, and I like exotic swine.

[00:02:53] James Badman: As you mentioned, warthogs, and, you know, being able to work with them and, Red River hogs and some of the wild type swine has just been a pure joy of mine.

[00:03:02] Siebe Van Der Zee: Very interesting. And again, we’ll talk more about that as we go to your 10 lessons. But before we get to the 10 lessons, I’m kind of curious.

[00:03:09] Siebe Van Der Zee: I want to ask you this. Lessons that you have learned in life and in your career, is there a lesson that you have learned that You would like to teach yourself if you would be 30 years old right now.

[00:03:20] James Badman: Um, absolutely, you know, it, this has been a, great, exercise for me, a great time to, to be able to reflect.

[00:03:26] James Badman: And, you know, when, when I was thinking about this, I, thought to myself, One of the lessons that, that I felt like I learned later, that I wish I would have known earlier is, it’s not always about being right, sometimes we have to just make sure or prove that we were right and in the end it has done nothing, you know, it proved nothing, and I remind myself, It’s not always about being right.

[00:03:51] James Badman: Sometimes, you know, there’s compromise and, not sometimes, a lot of times it’s compromise and, we need to be able to work together and in doing so, you know, it’s not. Hitting someone over the head saying, I’m right. You’re wrong. You know, it’s, it’s, what can we do to work together?

[00:04:07] Siebe Van Der Zee: Yeah, I was thinking here because I, I like what you’re saying and, you’re not always right, finding a compromise. It’s hard to escape sometimes talking about politics in any country, not just because here in the United States, but all over the world seeking a compromise. That seems to be something that is very difficult for many people, even though if that’s a goal from the start, to say, hey, we may not agree, but we have to find something in common because we have certain goals that affect all of us, then You know, it’s a great skill to have.

[00:04:41] Siebe Van Der Zee: So,

[00:04:41] Lesson 1: Value friendships

[00:04:41] Siebe Van Der Zee: let’s move to your lessons and, lesson number one, value friendships. What are your thoughts behind that?

[00:04:49] James Badman: so, this one was number one for me because, you know, the interesting thing was, you know, we met through a mutual friend.

[00:04:56] James Badman: And this person was a long-term friend, not just a friend, a mentor of mine. And, so many times, I have needed help or, direction or, you know, or sometimes it’s just a friend that’s pulled me back and said, hey, maybe take a moment and let’s look at this. But, you know, they’ve been there when I’ve needed them.

[00:05:16] James Badman: I try to be a good friend and be there when they need me. and in doing so, I’ve been fortunate enough to be able to help people out, and also received help. So, to me, we get to choose our friends and I, I do and I value them and I, I feel like, you know, you and I have become really good friends and, it’s because we had a mutual friend that we both had a tremendous respect for and, was at a time when he needed help and we were able to help him and, because of that, it’s a reminder to me to value them and to some degree treasure them, you know, because, I appreciate everything that friend did for me as a mentor and, I know I’m where I am today because of the investment he made in me.

[00:05:53] Siebe Van Der Zee: Very powerful. And of course, I know, let’s say the details of what you’re talking about. Friendship is a two-way street, right? It goes on both sides. and, giving it a little variation, James, but when I think of some of my pets, I consider them my friends.

[00:06:09] James Badman: Absolutely.

[00:06:10] Siebe Van Der Zee: Obviously it’s different than a human relationship, but I think for many people, dogs and cats, but perhaps in your case, again, beyond that, when it comes to tortoises, for example, is there something that you, as a, as a professional animal expert, that you have with certain animals that you say, yes, we are friends.

[00:06:33] Siebe Van Der Zee: Would you use that definition? It’s different than with people. We understand.

[00:06:37] James Badman: Yeah, absolutely. And different animals respond differently to you, but they are dependent on you when they’re in captivity, a hundred percent. And so. I think that there’s an absolute bond that happens with a lot of, animals and species.

[00:06:53] James Badman: And, and I know some people are probably, you know, thinking tortoises, how can there be a bond? But when, when you go out to the pens and, and they start running up towards you and, they associate you, of course, with food and, there may be some anthropomorphism going on, but, you know, that, you know, they’re, they’re coming to you.

[00:07:07] James Badman: They look to you, for their needs. but, you know, I absolutely, think there that you can develop a bond with your animals for sure. And, and especially I have dogs and cats as well. And, and, you know, mine gets all excited when I get home and, you know, knows that she gets to go out with us, you know, we have a little poodle and, and, and go run around in the yard and, and, you know, I think looks forward to it and definitely seeks companionship.

[00:07:30] James Badman:

[00:07:30] Siebe Van Der Zee: Yeah, very important. I appreciate what you’re saying.

[00:07:33] Lesson 2: Never give up on your passion, even if it must be sidelined for a minute.

[00:07:33] Siebe Van Der Zee: let’s move on. Lesson number two, never give up on your passion, even if it must be sidelined for a minute. Now your passion, has to do with animals and exotic animals. how do you explain or give an example of the passion that you’re talking about here?

[00:07:50] James Badman: Well, you know, I always. Felt like I knew what I wanted to do. but sometimes getting there, you know, took, education and time to get the education or, a skill or, you know, some, sometimes I had to leave, you know, the, the animal industry in general to, you know, when, when I moved, to get reestablished in a place and, you know, sometimes you’re just down and you’re like, man, I, I feel like I’ve gotten so separated from it.

[00:08:14] James Badman: I knew what I wanted. I knew what my goal was. And sometimes to obtain it, you have to sideline the passion. But I felt like I did everything I could to stay connected to it. But I, you know, I have two daughters and both of them are in college and they’re telling me, dad, it feels like I’ve been going to school forever.

[00:08:33] James Badman: And I’m like, I know, but this investment will pay off and, you will get there. I remember feeling that way for sure, or like I said, when I moved and I had to kind of reestablish myself and you felt like you were starting at the bottom again and, and just not connected to the community or, the animal community in my case.

[00:08:49] James Badman: And, and, you know, it’s not losing that, that drive or passion to get back to it, but sometimes we do have to, to step away from it to fulfill other needs.

[00:09:01] Siebe Van Der Zee: It’s a very important point because indeed, I think for most people going through life, yeah, we have certain passions, but we cannot necessarily put our time and effort into it because of other things that we are committed to.

[00:09:14] Siebe Van Der Zee: But that passion… I would think remains deeply inside, right? And if I think of, let’s say people who are into a certain type of sport, whatever the sport may be, when they’re young, they’re actively involved, they’re playing that sport, competing in that sport, perhaps. And as They, we grow older physically, perhaps we can no longer be involved, but watching those games and understanding the mindset of the participants in those games, even if that’s, let’s say beyond our generation, that passion stays, right?

[00:09:50] Siebe Van Der Zee: So, passion will stick with you. Yeah. And I think that’s a, that’s a good point to make. even if you have to sometimes take some distance from it because that’s,

[00:09:58] James Badman: yeah. And sometimes your role changes. in, in what you’re doing or that you play in, your passion, you know, and yours was a perfect example, and sometimes I feel like I’m going into a mentorship role now and, a lot of what I do is very physical and, you know, it gets harder when you get older.

[00:10:16] Siebe Van Der Zee: Yeah, no doubt about it.

[00:10:18] Lesson 3: Someone has done it before you. Find them, learn from them.

[00:10:18] Siebe Van Der Zee: Well, let’s take a look at lesson number three. Someone has done it before you. Find them, learn from them. Please explain.

[00:10:26] James Badman: so, I, I was very, very fortunate. I’ve had, know, at least three, mentors that, really took me in and invested in me. And they could see what I was trying to do or wanted to do.

[00:10:36] James Badman: they knew, or I knew what I wanted to do, but sometimes that road isn’t clear. You know, sometimes you’re uncertain or, or even as if this is, you know, a good job or knowing what. Your end game or your goal is and I, like I said, I was very fortunate. I had, you know, three main ones, mentors and, and they, especially, one of them so free with information and knowledge cause there’s competitiveness in any industry, not just.

[00:11:08] James Badman: Mine or the animal industry, so sometimes you’re like, you know, people, don’t always tell you everything or all the facts and, and, you know, you’re down a path sometimes. And I’m working with the species, and I may be struggling with them or whatever. And, there, there have been people have done it before me and I’m even to this day, you know, there, there’s a species of bird that I’ve been, we’ve been working to raise, and it hasn’t gone well for us.

[00:11:32] James Badman: And I reached out, I found an article, I’d love to read and, dove into a book and, and found an article that led me to a person that, that has had some success. And so, I, you know, great thing with email and Google, you can almost find anybody these days. And I was able to track a person down and, you know, I, I kind of believe in that sixth degree of separation.

[00:11:52] Siebe Van Der Zee: There’s your passion, right?

[00:11:53] James Badman: Yeah.

[00:11:55] Siebe Van Der Zee: I like to read; I like to do the research because that’s your passion.

[00:11:58] James Badman: Yes.

[00:11:59] Siebe Van Der Zee: On that lesson, someone has done it before you and you mentioned you’ve had three mentors helping you, guiding you, supporting you. you also say find them, learn from them. Now, I can think of many individuals who haven’t had the, the advantage.

[00:12:17] Siebe Van Der Zee: of having mentors, especially mentors reaching out to them and say, hey, I like what you’re doing. I’ve done this before. I want to help you, guide you, et cetera. When you talk about find them, learn from them, where do you find the mentor and how do you make them your mentor? Because you can find people who are interested in what you’re doing. But are they willing to spend time in guiding you?

[00:12:43] James Badman: Siebe, that’s a great question. So, we would, or I would, you know, look into organizations or clubs, associations, that, that promote the industry that I’m in. that’s what I did. one of the mentors I met through a friend. one of them, I would make sure to get out and go to events where he was speaking or whatever.

[00:13:03] James Badman: And I, joke with, Kirsten, my wife, you know, I, I think it was that pesky kid that nagged him all the time. And he finally was just, was like, this one’s relentless. I need to, maybe, just talk to him and just maybe, you know, settle him down a little bit and then he’ll go away. But I also believe they feel a, you know, it’s, or at least I feel when I find a young person like myself that was, that, that has this passion, it’s like, I need to invest in them because they’re the next generation.

[00:13:36] James Badman: And I have an actual appreciation when someone has that drive or passion, or that drive in the passion that I had, because, I, I know some people it’s like, oh, yeah, I’m an animal person, but, you know, I don’t want to do this. I don’t want to get dirty. I don’t want to work outside. You know, it’s like, you know, this is what we do, you know, and, And so I, I think that, or I know all three of them appreciated my drive and interest in, in what we do, and, and the seriousness that I took to it and, and so, I, I know they appreciated that, but like I said, one of them, I had to really. Keep, you know, getting out there, putting myself in front of them, so they knew I was there, where another was I just, I just showed up, met through a friend and we start talking and we realized we, we both had similar backgrounds and interests.

[00:14:24] Siebe Van Der Zee: I like it what you’re saying that indeed, you know, to reach out, and be proactive based on your passion.

[00:14:31] Lesson 4: Don’t be afraid to ask for help.

[00:14:31] Siebe Van Der Zee: it kind of leads into lesson number four, don’t be afraid to ask for help. any thoughts, example on that?

[00:14:41] James Badman: Yeah, you know, in our industry, things can go sideways pretty quick.

[00:14:45] James Badman: And there’s been times where I’m like, oh, how did I get here? Why didn’t I stop myself? Why, you know, why didn’t I stop and ask for help? and, I know, this person knows, about this species or could have been giving me direction and, you know, not all of us know what is going on.

[00:15:02] James Badman: You know, a lot of people don’t know what I’m personally doing or going on in my life. And so, it may not be obvious I’m struggling. I think we’re quick to go, people should have seen I wasn’t doing well or struggling, but I think that, we also have an obligation to ourselves to say, to pause and say, hey, you know, think I’m, outside my realm of expertise, I need another tool in my toolbox.

[00:15:21] James Badman: I need to find help or, or get, get someone to help me, in my case, with the species I’m working with or, or life in general, I think. there was a stigma to, you’re not a very good or strong person if you need help. And it’s like, none of us know how to do everything,

[00:15:35] James Badman: And so, I appreciate when people reach out to me and help. And I, I’m not quick to go, ah, they should know better, you know, stuff like that. It’s like, I’ve done this a long time. I have a few more battle scars than the rest of them, you know? And so, what may be obvious to me, may not be to others.

[00:15:50] James Badman: And, and so again, it was like we were talking about a few minutes ago. I think roles are changing a little bit. I’m, I’m in a position now to be, mentoring and, and helping others. And, and want to make sure I’m doing that.

[00:16:02] Siebe Van Der Zee: You make some great points, James. indeed, when do you ask? sometimes perhaps it may feel like it’s too early.

[00:16:10] Siebe Van Der Zee: To ask for help, sometimes it feels that, well, after the fact, I should have asked for help earlier, so you’re basically too late. In your mind, when are you on time?

[00:16:20] James Badman: Yeah, that, I mean, a great question because, sometimes it’s just not obvious you’re underwater, and, I agree, it won’t help to be too far, in a problem, but, you know, I, try to, as soon as I feel like something’s going sideways, take a moment, And evaluate, go, you know, am I on course?

[00:16:40] James Badman: Do I need to make an adjustment? And do I need help? it’s a way I approach things. But I think that, because again, I feel like there’s a lot of times I’ve seen situations where I’m like, I could have helped this person. I could have. done, several things, your loan them stuff or whatever, and whatever the situation is and said, hey, here, use this or take this, this will, this will help you.

[00:17:02] James Badman: And I think that’s part of passing on the knowledge too, and, or being a mentor,

[00:17:05] Siebe Van Der Zee: Exactly being a mentor. And that’s, what I hear and value greatly in you because. Yes, you have learned that it’s okay to ask for help and don’t be afraid to ask for help. At the same time, you make it clear, I think, to our listeners that You are there to help.

[00:17:25] Siebe Van Der Zee: You take the initiative. If you see people that are on your team or in your network, and perhaps you observe them as maybe not, doing so well, it sounds like you are the one that will reach out to them to say, hey, can I help? Or let me help you with this or with that. Am I correct in making that sort of observation?

[00:17:48] James Badman: Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s, almost, you know, almost human nature. We don’t necessarily want to see people struggle, we want to, to help, but I will say it’s not always obvious, and that’s why, it’s important to make sure. Your needs are known as well, but absolutely.

[00:18:05] James Badman: I don’t want to see people struggling. And so, if there was something I could do to help someone, you know, I know I’d, I’d want to help because sometimes it’s just time that fixes things. It’s not like. they’re asking for financial help or, anything other than my time or a suggestion, or a loan of a, a tool or crate or whatever, you know, and stuff that, that could be easily, remedied,

[00:18:31] Siebe Van Der Zee: Would you… Say that most people are like that, or maybe not, because I can see a lot of things that are not going well in societies, and there are people that are in a great position, whether it’s financially or in other areas. Not everyone seems to have the need to reach out to other people and help them.

[00:18:52] Siebe Van Der Zee: Does that make you unique, or at least in a minority category of people that say, I do that automatically?

[00:19:00] James Badman: I want to, I want to believe that it’s, it’s the majority and it’s humankind that if we were, seeing someone struggle in a crowd, we would go over and, and, want to help someone, but, you know, you’re absolutely right.

[00:19:13] James Badman: it’s the mob mentality that can sometimes be, not, not friendly to, to an individual or, minority or, or, you know, a situation. but in general, I want to say, you know, I, I’d hope that most of us would want to help someone that we saw struggling, especially someone on our team or in, in our, in what we do, you know, I know there’s competitiveness.

[00:19:40] James Badman: I know, but You know, in the end, I would want to see, especially my friends, my, my community succeed, I don’t know that I’d find joy in seeing someone fail.

[00:19:52] Siebe Van Der Zee: Oh, and it’s definitely wisdom.

[00:19:55] Siebe Van Der Zee: thank you for sharing that thought process and that lesson, of course.

[00:20:01] Lesson 5: We all report to someone.

[00:20:01] Siebe Van Der Zee: Lesson number five, we all report to someone. Lots of thoughts come to my mind when you say that, but let’s start with your thoughts.

[00:20:11] James Badman: You know, when I was younger, and, working for a couple of facilities, every Friday night, all of us would get together, you know, all the employees and staff, we’d get together and, as you’re, you’re socializing, it always comes up and you’re talking shop and it’s the, you know, if I ran the show.

[00:20:27] James Badman: This is what I’d be doing and I, and I’d be doing this and this and this and this, right? And I’m sure my employees do it about me. I’m sure, the folks that are coming up under me are, doing that. And I think. What we all realize and in looking back, and I, again, it’s something Kirsten and I have talked about before.

[00:20:44] James Badman: We worked at a couple places together. you know, I’ve even gone back and said, if I ran the show back then, I would have done exactly what those bosses done because they report to people, they’re under, you know, financial pressures or from under pressures from above and. A lot of what they’re doing that we don’t see, is what’s keeping the company alive, keeping the place afloat, keeping them within regulatory boundaries, you know, and.

[00:21:15] James Badman: Now being in a senior position at ASU, owning my own companies, I’m that decision maker. And like I said, I’m sure, you know, it’s being said about me, because I’m not always sharing, hey guys, we’re lean, we’re in low cash mode, or, you know, it’s been a slow summer or, or whatever.

[00:21:30] James Badman: And I’m not here to share the stress of the company on them, but it affects my decision-making process. You know, and everyone thinks to themselves, oh, he’s the owner, he doesn’t report to anyone. He’s just making these decisions and they’re not always the best decisions.

[00:21:44] James Badman: And, as an owner, know, if I have no customers, I have no business I see it, even in the political climate, oh, he’s the president, but, he reports to all of us, and if we’re unhappy, he will not be re-elected, and I.

[00:21:57] James Badman: I think everyone thinks, Oh, this person’s at the top, and we’re just at their whim and that’s not the case. And, it was, that was an interesting lesson for me to learn,

[00:22:06] Siebe Van Der Zee: I don’t know if you put it in that perspective, but if you look at, whether they are, students or customers, or perhaps even in your case, your animals, well, you don’t report.

[00:22:19] Siebe Van Der Zee: To the tortoises, I understand that, but they have certain requirements that you have to live up to. And, and so, we all report to someone or at least in that sense, let’s include the animals today. because that matters as well, right? I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s not only the people above you. And the people that they report to above them, it just, it’s just being responsible.

[00:22:46] Siebe Van Der Zee: So, very, very interesting point.

[00:22:49] Affiliate Break

[00:22:49] Siebe Van Der Zee: we’re talking today with James Badman, a successful entrepreneur and university director with a lifelong passion for exotic animals, sharing his 10 Lessons Learned. I want to thank our affiliate partner Audible. Audible is an amazing way to experience our program 10 Lessons Learned, but also books and other podcasts, allowing you to build a library of knowledge all in one place.

[00:23:13] Siebe Van Der Zee: You can start your free 30-day trial by going to audible trial.com/10lessonslearned. Again, that’s audible trial.com/10lessonslearned all lowercase to get your free 30-day subscription.

[00:23:29] Lesson 6: You are only on top for so long, so always look to improve or reinvent yourself.

[00:23:29] Siebe Van Der Zee: Alright, moving along, lesson number six. You are only on top for so long, so always look to improve or reinvent yourself.

[00:23:39] Siebe Van Der Zee: I like it, but please explain.

[00:23:41] James Badman: Well, you know, as a business owner, you do peak and If you’re not reinventing yourself, you peak and then that, starts to, dwindle whether competitors start doing what you’re doing and pulling the market away from you to someone does something better.

[00:23:56] James Badman: but in everything I’ve done, I, I’ve noticed that you do hit a peak and, and like I said, you, you have to reinvent yourself. You need to move. Or change roles, maybe get more education. but I think there’s always something that you can do. I would say make sure you enjoy your success, but.

[00:24:15] James Badman: Be aware that you, you know, to continue that success, you definitely need to be reinvesting back into, some, some form of, of change.

[00:24:23] Siebe Van Der Zee: Now, you have been actively involved in the animal industry for 30 years. What’s your next move, your next career? And we’ll keep it confidential with, I don’t know, a few thousand listeners.

[00:24:37] Siebe Van Der Zee: But are you looking at yourself as well as, moving on, and reinventing yourself, perhaps, into the future.

[00:24:44] James Badman: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, a lot of what I, do is, is based on my interest, but, you know, there, there is a, a, a financial side. I do have to raise some species that, you know, bring money into the farm and stuff so that I can afford to do what I’m doing.

[00:25:00] James Badman: And sometimes that’s, you know, seeing what, what, what species people are interested in, you know, and it’s cyclical. And I’ve always felt that if you do what you enjoy or, you know, raise a species that you, really enjoy or comfortable with, want to breed, you’ll be in that cyclical cycle somewhere at some point.

[00:25:18] James Badman: And, and, you know, there’ll be a demand for, for, what you do. but it’s really driven by my interests, but you can’t do only that. like I said, I, I do have to focus some on species that, that are of interest to others. So, you know, it’s, it’s the way the business rolls,

[00:25:33] Siebe Van Der Zee: Makes sense. Makes sense.

[00:25:35] Lesson 7: Remember that even when things are not going well, there is a lesson to be learned.

[00:25:35] Siebe Van Der Zee: Lesson number seven. Wow. Remember that even when things are not going well, there is a lesson to be learned. I’m thinking 10 lessons learned. That’s why we’re here, right? But, please, share your thoughts on that one.

[00:25:49] James Badman: absolutely. You know, sometimes, you know, like we talked about earlier, you know, sometimes projects are going sideways.

[00:25:55] James Badman: I’ve been in a position where I’m like, or working a job and I’m like, this is not going well. And sometimes that lesson is this is not what I want to do. or the species that I’m working for. You know, I, I live in Mesa, right outside Phoenix.

[00:26:11] James Badman: And so, you know, we have harsh summers and mild winters and it’s very dry here. and, and so to, to pick a tropical species that likes very cool weather, would not be my best idea, but there’s times we try different things, and it doesn’t work and, I tell myself, you know, I, I’m, I’m learning a lesson.

[00:26:33] James Badman: I’ve learned a lesson. And this is one I’ve been able to teach my kids recently, where I’ve said, one of them had a job, a position that didn’t She didn’t care for, and I said, you’ve learned this is not the path you want to go down. This is not what you want to do.

[00:26:46] James Badman: And you need to do a little correction and change, you know, you want to be in this industry, but not do this. And, and so, like I said, I always believe, there there’s a lesson to be learned even when it’s not going well. And sometimes it’s, I don’t want to work here.

[00:26:59] James Badman: I don’t want to do this. or. You know, this company wasn’t a good company or to do business with, you know, so whatever that lesson may be.

[00:27:07] Siebe Van Der Zee: Not putting you on the spot, James, but have you ever dealt with failure in your life or in your career and perhaps lessons learned from that?

[00:27:17] James Badman: Oh, absolutely.

[00:27:18] James Badman: You know, that, that’s, I think some of my biggest lessons have been from failure. it does teach you a lesson and, I think you, you should not be afraid to try things worrying about failure. You should, definitely put yourself out there, try something.

[00:27:34] James Badman: If it, if it fails, you’ve learned a lesson, you’ve learned what not to do, or, and sometimes it’s just a course correction. If I would have done this midway through, I would have been successful. I don’t go into something fearing failure. I go in hoping, you know, obviously for the best, but some, sometimes things don’t work out,

[00:27:51] Siebe Van Der Zee: Good point. Very true.

[00:27:53] Lesson 8: Put yourself out there.

[00:27:53] Siebe Van Der Zee: Lesson number eight. Put yourself out there. Not easy for most people, right?

[00:27:59] James Badman: true, true. So, I believe, myself included, you know, a lot of animal people, you know, we work with animals cause we’re introverts. we’re not the one, out there in a crowd of people, dancing in the center of the crowd. we’re the one on the outskirts, kind of watching everything, doing everything.

[00:28:15] James Badman: it, this is the hardest one for me, you know, I, it’s, it’s not my thing. I’m comfortable with routine. I don’t necessarily want change and I, this is also one that I’m most proud of my daughters, of, especially my youngest daughter, you know, very shy and, and, and overcame it and always putting herself out there.

[00:28:35] James Badman: I’m impressed. and, not only putting yourself out there, I mean, giving 100%, and trying, you know, and I feel that, I need to do it more, you know, I, I feel like it’s very, very important. And that’s how you learn new things.

[00:28:49] James Badman: That’s how you meet new people. That’s how you, you know, you, you get new experiences. And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve walked away going. One, it wasn’t as hard, you go into it dreading it and I’m like, man, I don’t know why I was dreading it. It was actually kind of fun, and I had a great time, I tell myself, you know, you need to put yourself out there.

[00:29:06] James Badman: You got to try stuff. You got to, and something I wish I would have been. more proactive at when I was younger doing, you know, and, and again, you know, very proud of my, my children for, for doing it, my kids, cause they really, really, you know, I tell them all the time, you, you, you got to put it out, put it out there.

[00:29:23] James Badman: Sometimes we have to do what we don’t want to do. And, and, and, and proud for the, the experiences and things they have tried.

[00:29:30] Siebe Van Der Zee: You say it so well, and obviously you have. Your proof from your own life career, but then when you talk about your daughters, makes it even stronger. and it is uncomfortable for many people and well, for everybody, I want to say, not everybody perhaps, but to reach out and say, hey, I’m going to, you know, put myself out there, like you say.

[00:29:50] Siebe Van Der Zee: but then afterwards, and that’s what I hear from you as well. it’s more like. Yeah, I’m glad I did that. I’m glad I got that experience. And, sure, I can do it again next time. And if you don’t try it, if you don’t put yourself out there, then you’ll never know if that would have been a good experience or perhaps not so good.

[00:30:11] Siebe Van Der Zee: That can happen as well, of course, but you learn from it. And that’s the point that you’re making.

[00:30:16] James Badman: Absolutely. And I, I’ve always been so impressed. I have a, a, a really close friend that, I mean, he can enter a room and start talking to anybody. I, I’ve always been so impressed by that, you know, and, and, you know, I, I’m fretting over how to start the conversation.

[00:30:32] James Badman: You know, you end up, I’ll end up paired with someone who’s not an animal person. And I’m thinking, that’s all I know. That’s all I, you know, I don’t, I, you know, I’m, I’m not that much into sports or anything like that. And so, then you’re like, I don’t have anything to talk about, you know, this is not,

[00:30:48] Siebe Van Der Zee: you know, a lot more James.

[00:30:49] Siebe Van Der Zee: There’s no doubt about it. And we’re. Learning from you. So definitely keep that going.

[00:30:55] Lesson 9: You have to work to be happy.

[00:30:55] Siebe Van Der Zee: Lesson number nine, you have to work to be happy. I’ll let you start because I have questions.

[00:31:01] James Badman: I come into work every day and I, I greet my staff and they’re always like, you know, man, you’re, you’re always so happy.

[00:31:06] James Badman: You start with good morning, and, you know, we have.an over full day, you know, there’s already, you know, you’re going into it knowing there’s too much work and not enough time. And, or we have some very difficult tasks, or we have a very difficult conversation, and this was something that, that really, was taught to me by Kirsten, you know, my wife,

[00:31:23] James Badman: don’t dwell on the negative. Stay positive. And you got to work to be happy. You got to work to, to go, okay, you know, we’re, yes, it is going to be a very full day. We’re going to get through this. We’re going to maybe have some fun doing some of it. And it’s something that,

[00:31:36] James Badman: I think, you know, there are days it’s, it’s hard to wear a smile, but, you know, I’m thinking to myself, I’m here to be rallying the troops and keeping everyone motivated and happy. and, I remember, as an employee was, you know, when the boss is unhappy and walks in and sets a bad tone, we all are unhappy and we know it’s not going to be a good day and, no one wants to work.

[00:31:58] James Badman: like that. I mean, people, I can’t keep employees, or I can’t, and I’m thinking myself, well, you’re also one of the most negative people I know. So, you know, I, I’m thinking, you know, maybe, changing the mood or the climate of the business, or the atmosphere of the business.

[00:32:09] James Badman: But I think just personally, overall, I, you, it does take work to be happy, you know, and, and if you’re unhappy, it’s like rooting out the source of that unhappiness. Find out why you’re unhappy and what you can do to improve. Your overall happiness. I’ve had jobs that I’ve, I’ve hated, you know, or worked for, a boss that I, I’m just like, you know, this is the, the, um, you know, most negative person I’ve ever had to work for.

[00:32:37] James Badman: And the glass isn’t half empty, it’s half empty, cracked, leaking, you know, I mean, they, they can just find every. Reason why, it’s going to be bad. And, and I’m thinking to myself, I don’t want to be here. I don’t want to work here. And it definitely affects the way I feel. So, I try to remember that I walk in, you know, I greet everyone.

[00:32:53] James Badman: Good morning. And had them say to me, what’s good about today? And I’m like, you know, we’re, we’re here, we’re here to. do what we need to do to get, get the job done and, and maybe have some fun during it.

[00:33:04] Siebe Van Der Zee: You have to be happy. So, it makes sense to me.

[00:33:07] Lesson 10: Give back, when you can.

[00:33:07] Siebe Van Der Zee: number 10. We’re there. 10 lessons. Give back when you can. I’m at this point, no longer surprised that you bring that up as a lesson.

[00:33:16] Siebe Van Der Zee: And, obviously, I’m, curious about why giving back is so important to you. I don’t disagree. Don’t get me wrong, but clearly that is important to you.

[00:33:26] James Badman: Yes, because, I, I kind of feel like what I do is like a dying industry, we’re, we’re not seeing the younger generation, wanting to be in nature with, working with animals, and, you know, I, I got so much out of it and, and so much, joy out of it and appreciation.

[00:33:44] James Badman: And in fact, both. Yeah. My wife and I, you know, we’re both really animal people. And so, I felt like we got so much out of it. I want to give back. And so, we, we really support, the 4 programs, which I know this is an international, podcast But, those are, youth organizations here for agriculture, you know, for, kids to work in agriculture with, domestic animals and stuff.

[00:34:09] James Badman: And so, Kirsten and I really pour into those programs, because we both got something. They were both starts for us as well. And, if I can bring that joy or appreciation to a younger generation and get them involved, then maybe they’ll, they’ll stay in this industry and work it and find the passion that I have, in it and, and be able to do it.

[00:34:31] James Badman: And, and I think. No matter what you do, it’s part of giving back. I have gotten so much out of it. I’ve been, had a very full career and blessed with some, successful businesses. and so, part of that is, like we talked about before, you’re only on top for so long.

[00:34:46] James Badman: I would like to see others have the, do the, do even better than what I’ve done. or even. You know, find a breeder that is even more successful than me, that would really. Bring me happiness to know that I’ve contributed.

[00:35:00] Siebe Van Der Zee: Again, a very important point. And I already hear in the success of perhaps people that you have guided, trained, parented, their success. is a way of giving back to you all the time, right?

[00:35:14] James Badman: Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:35:15] Siebe Van Der Zee: That’s, that’s where you get hopefully satisfaction that you say, wow, if I look back at what this person has done with your help, with your guidance, that feels good to you, of course.

[00:35:27] James Badman: Yes. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:35:29] Siebe Van Der Zee: Excellent point. Excellent stuff. I have another question that I want to ask you. are there any lessons that you have learned in life, in your career, that perhaps after time that you have unlearned, decided, no longer, I’m going to do it differently. Does anything come to mind?

[00:35:48] James Badman: you know, I, I, I’m a very driven person and I always.

[00:35:54] James Badman: found that I felt success in my accomplishments and, I guess more of a lesson that I’m trying to maybe not unlearn, but teach myself now is, you know, I really do need to slow down and enjoy, what’s going on and, you know, the, the accomplishments of my kids or, or, or Kirsten or, making sure that I’m not missing.

[00:36:16] James Badman: that I, you know, it’s the old, you know, was it stop and smell the roses or, you know, and I, I feel that sometimes I’m, I’m so focused or, driven and, and in knowing where I need to be. And so, I’ve got blinders on, and I’m not appreciating where I am now. And I, I feel like, you know, it, you know, we’re, we’re always learning and, it’s a lesson that.

[00:36:42] James Badman: You know, I, I’m telling myself now, you know, make sure you’re, you know, and it’s something that I think you probably see as you’re older. I feel like as I get older, I, you know, it’s like, you know, did I, did I miss something? Did I, you know, so, but I don’t know if that’s something I unlearned, but it’s something I’m teaching myself now.

[00:36:59] Siebe Van Der Zee: Well, you’ll get there, but it’s, it’s very valuable. And, James, I want to thank you for, for joining us today and for sharing your lessons of wisdom with our global audience. It’s much appreciated. I want to make some closing remarks. you have been listening to our international program, 10 Lessons Learned.

[00:37:20] Siebe Van Der Zee: This episode is produced as always by Robert Hossary and supported by the Professional Development Forum. Our guest today is James Badman, a successful entrepreneur and university director with a lifelong passion for exotic animals, sharing his 10 lessons learned. And to our audience, don’t forget to leave us a review or a comment.

[00:37:43] Siebe Van Der Zee: You can also email us at podcast at 10 lessons learned. That is podcast at number 10, one zero lessonslearned. com. I hope you will subscribe so that you don’t miss any future episodes. And remember, this is a podcast that

[00:37:59] Siebe Van Der Zee: makes the world wiser and wiser, lesson by lesson. Thank you and stay safe.

 This episode is produced by Robert Hossary. Sponsored as always by Professional Development Forum. You can find the www.professionaldevelopmentforum.org you’ve heard from us we’d like to hear from you. Email us it’s podcast@10lessonslearned.com. Remember, this is the podcast the only podcast. That’s makes the world wiser lesson by lesson.

James Badman

James Badman – Someone has done it before you.  Find them, learn from them

James Badman is a published Academic, Entrepreneur, Director and discusses why you shouldn’t “be afraid to ask for help”, that “You should never give up on your passion”, why “you should put yourself out there” and more. Hosted by Siebe Van Der Zee.

About James Badman

James Badman is highly dedicated to his work in the animal industry. He has developed expertise in business administration, including state and federal permitting, USDA licensing, and the recruiting and training of animal care staff. He is the Associate Director for the Department of Animal Care and Technologies at Arizona State University where he has worked for over 25 years. He has founded and established several businesses including the Red Mountain Conservation and Education Center since 2002, and the USDA licensed exotic animal pet store, WildSide Pets, from 2007 to 2022, and co-founder of the Phoenix Reptile Expo with partner Drew Rheinhardt.

James’ involvement within the animal industry is rooted in his lifelong passion for animals, which includes working with a wide range of species from tortoises to warthogs.

Episode Notes

04:41 Lesson 1: Value friendships
07:33 Lesson 2: Never give up on your passion, even if it must be sidelined for a minute
10:18 Lesson 3: Someone has done it before you. Find them, learn from them.
14:31 Lesson 4: Don’t be afraid to ask for help
20:01 Lesson 5: We all report to someone
22:49 Affiliate Break
23:29 Lesson 6: You are only on top for so long, so always look to improve or reinvent yourself
25:35 Lesson 7: Remember that even when things are not going well, there is a lesson to be learned
27:53 Lesson 8: Put yourself out there
30:55 Lesson 9: You have to work to be happy
33:07 Lesson 10: Give back, when you can

James Badman – Someone has done it before you. Find them, learn from them.

[00:00:08] Siebe Van Der Zee: Hello and welcome to our program, 10 Lessons Learned, where we talk to interesting people from all over the world about their interesting experiences and the lessons they have learned. My name is Siebe Van Der Zee, and I’m your host. I am based in Phoenix, Arizona, in the beautiful Grand Canyon State, where I’m also known as the Dutchman in the desert.

[00:00:31] Siebe Van Der Zee: Our guest today is James Badman. James Badman offers 30 years of experience in animal management. in a variety of settings and as a successful business owner, he serves as the Associate Director of Facilities and Operations at Arizona State University at the Department of Animal Care and Technologies.

[00:00:52] Siebe Van Der Zee: His strong dedication to work within the animal industry is rooted in his lifelong passion for animals, which includes working with a wide range of animals from tortoises to warthogs. James possesses expert knowledge. and skills in all facets of exotic animal licensing, handling, management, breeding, and transport.

[00:01:13] Siebe Van Der Zee: As an entrepreneur, he founded and established three businesses, including Red Mountain Conservation and Education Center, a USDA Department of Agriculture, a USDA licensed exotic animal pet store named Wild Side Pets, and he managed the Phoenix Reptile Expo, one of the largest reptile expositions in the United States.

[00:01:33] Siebe Van Der Zee: You can learn more about James Badman on our website. 10lessonslearned. com.

[00:01:40] Siebe Van Der Zee: Hello, James. Thank you for joining us today.

[00:01:43] James Badman: Hi, Siebe. Thank you for having me.

[00:01:44] Siebe Van Der Zee: Well, it’s great to have you on this episode. Your wisdom has a lot to do with animals, and I have to say, I like animals. I have a dog and many people like dogs and cats.

[00:01:56] Siebe Van Der Zee: In your case, your focus is on exotic animals and reptiles. That’s serious business. Where is that passion coming from?

[00:02:05] James Badman: it’s been a lifelong passion. I mean, since I was a kid, I’ve always been, interested in, working with animals and, going out in nature, seeing them, you know, getting the opportunity to work directly with them, house them.

[00:02:18] James Badman: And then, as I got older, the fascination really became about, breeding them, and long-term maintenance of them in captivity.

[00:02:25] Siebe Van Der Zee: It’s fascinating and we’ll talk more about it as we go through this episode, but do you have any favorite animals, because you deal with so many.

[00:02:34] Siebe Van Der Zee: Do you have a favorite or more than one favorite perhaps?

[00:02:37] James Badman: Absolutely. I get asked that question a lot because I work with a lot of animals, and it seems so diverse. obviously, I’ve had a lifelong passion with tortoises. I, really. have, just had a fascination with them since I was young, um, and I like exotic swine.

[00:02:53] James Badman: As you mentioned, warthogs, and, you know, being able to work with them and, Red River hogs and some of the wild type swine has just been a pure joy of mine.

[00:03:02] Siebe Van Der Zee: Very interesting. And again, we’ll talk more about that as we go to your 10 lessons. But before we get to the 10 lessons, I’m kind of curious.

[00:03:09] Siebe Van Der Zee: I want to ask you this. Lessons that you have learned in life and in your career, is there a lesson that you have learned that You would like to teach yourself if you would be 30 years old right now.

[00:03:20] James Badman: Um, absolutely, you know, it, this has been a, great, exercise for me, a great time to, to be able to reflect.

[00:03:26] James Badman: And, you know, when, when I was thinking about this, I, thought to myself, One of the lessons that, that I felt like I learned later, that I wish I would have known earlier is, it’s not always about being right, sometimes we have to just make sure or prove that we were right and in the end it has done nothing, you know, it proved nothing, and I remind myself, It’s not always about being right.

[00:03:51] James Badman: Sometimes, you know, there’s compromise and, not sometimes, a lot of times it’s compromise and, we need to be able to work together and in doing so, you know, it’s not. Hitting someone over the head saying, I’m right. You’re wrong. You know, it’s, it’s, what can we do to work together?

[00:04:07] Siebe Van Der Zee: Yeah, I was thinking here because I, I like what you’re saying and, you’re not always right, finding a compromise. It’s hard to escape sometimes talking about politics in any country, not just because here in the United States, but all over the world seeking a compromise. That seems to be something that is very difficult for many people, even though if that’s a goal from the start, to say, hey, we may not agree, but we have to find something in common because we have certain goals that affect all of us, then You know, it’s a great skill to have.

[00:04:41] Siebe Van Der Zee: So,

[00:04:41] Lesson 1: Value friendships

[00:04:41] Siebe Van Der Zee: let’s move to your lessons and, lesson number one, value friendships. What are your thoughts behind that?

[00:04:49] James Badman: so, this one was number one for me because, you know, the interesting thing was, you know, we met through a mutual friend.

[00:04:56] James Badman: And this person was a long-term friend, not just a friend, a mentor of mine. And, so many times, I have needed help or, direction or, you know, or sometimes it’s just a friend that’s pulled me back and said, hey, maybe take a moment and let’s look at this. But, you know, they’ve been there when I’ve needed them.

[00:05:16] James Badman: I try to be a good friend and be there when they need me. and in doing so, I’ve been fortunate enough to be able to help people out, and also received help. So, to me, we get to choose our friends and I, I do and I value them and I, I feel like, you know, you and I have become really good friends and, it’s because we had a mutual friend that we both had a tremendous respect for and, was at a time when he needed help and we were able to help him and, because of that, it’s a reminder to me to value them and to some degree treasure them, you know, because, I appreciate everything that friend did for me as a mentor and, I know I’m where I am today because of the investment he made in me.

[00:05:53] Siebe Van Der Zee: Very powerful. And of course, I know, let’s say the details of what you’re talking about. Friendship is a two-way street, right? It goes on both sides. and, giving it a little variation, James, but when I think of some of my pets, I consider them my friends.

[00:06:09] James Badman: Absolutely.

[00:06:10] Siebe Van Der Zee: Obviously it’s different than a human relationship, but I think for many people, dogs and cats, but perhaps in your case, again, beyond that, when it comes to tortoises, for example, is there something that you, as a, as a professional animal expert, that you have with certain animals that you say, yes, we are friends.

[00:06:33] Siebe Van Der Zee: Would you use that definition? It’s different than with people. We understand.

[00:06:37] James Badman: Yeah, absolutely. And different animals respond differently to you, but they are dependent on you when they’re in captivity, a hundred percent. And so. I think that there’s an absolute bond that happens with a lot of, animals and species.

[00:06:53] James Badman: And, and I know some people are probably, you know, thinking tortoises, how can there be a bond? But when, when you go out to the pens and, and they start running up towards you and, they associate you, of course, with food and, there may be some anthropomorphism going on, but, you know, that, you know, they’re, they’re coming to you.

[00:07:07] James Badman: They look to you, for their needs. but, you know, I absolutely, think there that you can develop a bond with your animals for sure. And, and especially I have dogs and cats as well. And, and, you know, mine gets all excited when I get home and, you know, knows that she gets to go out with us, you know, we have a little poodle and, and, and go run around in the yard and, and, you know, I think looks forward to it and definitely seeks companionship.

[00:07:30] James Badman:

[00:07:30] Siebe Van Der Zee: Yeah, very important. I appreciate what you’re saying.

[00:07:33] Lesson 2: Never give up on your passion, even if it must be sidelined for a minute.

[00:07:33] Siebe Van Der Zee: let’s move on. Lesson number two, never give up on your passion, even if it must be sidelined for a minute. Now your passion, has to do with animals and exotic animals. how do you explain or give an example of the passion that you’re talking about here?

[00:07:50] James Badman: Well, you know, I always. Felt like I knew what I wanted to do. but sometimes getting there, you know, took, education and time to get the education or, a skill or, you know, some, sometimes I had to leave, you know, the, the animal industry in general to, you know, when, when I moved, to get reestablished in a place and, you know, sometimes you’re just down and you’re like, man, I, I feel like I’ve gotten so separated from it.

[00:08:14] James Badman: I knew what I wanted. I knew what my goal was. And sometimes to obtain it, you have to sideline the passion. But I felt like I did everything I could to stay connected to it. But I, you know, I have two daughters and both of them are in college and they’re telling me, dad, it feels like I’ve been going to school forever.

[00:08:33] James Badman: And I’m like, I know, but this investment will pay off and, you will get there. I remember feeling that way for sure, or like I said, when I moved and I had to kind of reestablish myself and you felt like you were starting at the bottom again and, and just not connected to the community or, the animal community in my case.

[00:08:49] James Badman: And, and, you know, it’s not losing that, that drive or passion to get back to it, but sometimes we do have to, to step away from it to fulfill other needs.

[00:09:01] Siebe Van Der Zee: It’s a very important point because indeed, I think for most people going through life, yeah, we have certain passions, but we cannot necessarily put our time and effort into it because of other things that we are committed to.

[00:09:14] Siebe Van Der Zee: But that passion… I would think remains deeply inside, right? And if I think of, let’s say people who are into a certain type of sport, whatever the sport may be, when they’re young, they’re actively involved, they’re playing that sport, competing in that sport, perhaps. And as They, we grow older physically, perhaps we can no longer be involved, but watching those games and understanding the mindset of the participants in those games, even if that’s, let’s say beyond our generation, that passion stays, right?

[00:09:50] Siebe Van Der Zee: So, passion will stick with you. Yeah. And I think that’s a, that’s a good point to make. even if you have to sometimes take some distance from it because that’s,

[00:09:58] James Badman: yeah. And sometimes your role changes. in, in what you’re doing or that you play in, your passion, you know, and yours was a perfect example, and sometimes I feel like I’m going into a mentorship role now and, a lot of what I do is very physical and, you know, it gets harder when you get older.

[00:10:16] Siebe Van Der Zee: Yeah, no doubt about it.

[00:10:18] Lesson 3: Someone has done it before you. Find them, learn from them.

[00:10:18] Siebe Van Der Zee: Well, let’s take a look at lesson number three. Someone has done it before you. Find them, learn from them. Please explain.

[00:10:26] James Badman: so, I, I was very, very fortunate. I’ve had, know, at least three, mentors that, really took me in and invested in me. And they could see what I was trying to do or wanted to do.

[00:10:36] James Badman: they knew, or I knew what I wanted to do, but sometimes that road isn’t clear. You know, sometimes you’re uncertain or, or even as if this is, you know, a good job or knowing what. Your end game or your goal is and I, like I said, I was very fortunate. I had, you know, three main ones, mentors and, and they, especially, one of them so free with information and knowledge cause there’s competitiveness in any industry, not just.

[00:11:08] James Badman: Mine or the animal industry, so sometimes you’re like, you know, people, don’t always tell you everything or all the facts and, and, you know, you’re down a path sometimes. And I’m working with the species, and I may be struggling with them or whatever. And, there, there have been people have done it before me and I’m even to this day, you know, there, there’s a species of bird that I’ve been, we’ve been working to raise, and it hasn’t gone well for us.

[00:11:32] James Badman: And I reached out, I found an article, I’d love to read and, dove into a book and, and found an article that led me to a person that, that has had some success. And so, I, you know, great thing with email and Google, you can almost find anybody these days. And I was able to track a person down and, you know, I, I kind of believe in that sixth degree of separation.

[00:11:52] Siebe Van Der Zee: There’s your passion, right?

[00:11:53] James Badman: Yeah.

[00:11:55] Siebe Van Der Zee: I like to read; I like to do the research because that’s your passion.

[00:11:58] James Badman: Yes.

[00:11:59] Siebe Van Der Zee: On that lesson, someone has done it before you and you mentioned you’ve had three mentors helping you, guiding you, supporting you. you also say find them, learn from them. Now, I can think of many individuals who haven’t had the, the advantage.

[00:12:17] Siebe Van Der Zee: of having mentors, especially mentors reaching out to them and say, hey, I like what you’re doing. I’ve done this before. I want to help you, guide you, et cetera. When you talk about find them, learn from them, where do you find the mentor and how do you make them your mentor? Because you can find people who are interested in what you’re doing. But are they willing to spend time in guiding you?

[00:12:43] James Badman: Siebe, that’s a great question. So, we would, or I would, you know, look into organizations or clubs, associations, that, that promote the industry that I’m in. that’s what I did. one of the mentors I met through a friend. one of them, I would make sure to get out and go to events where he was speaking or whatever.

[00:13:03] James Badman: And I, joke with, Kirsten, my wife, you know, I, I think it was that pesky kid that nagged him all the time. And he finally was just, was like, this one’s relentless. I need to, maybe, just talk to him and just maybe, you know, settle him down a little bit and then he’ll go away. But I also believe they feel a, you know, it’s, or at least I feel when I find a young person like myself that was, that, that has this passion, it’s like, I need to invest in them because they’re the next generation.

[00:13:36] James Badman: And I have an actual appreciation when someone has that drive or passion, or that drive in the passion that I had, because, I, I know some people it’s like, oh, yeah, I’m an animal person, but, you know, I don’t want to do this. I don’t want to get dirty. I don’t want to work outside. You know, it’s like, you know, this is what we do, you know, and, And so I, I think that, or I know all three of them appreciated my drive and interest in, in what we do, and, and the seriousness that I took to it and, and so, I, I know they appreciated that, but like I said, one of them, I had to really. Keep, you know, getting out there, putting myself in front of them, so they knew I was there, where another was I just, I just showed up, met through a friend and we start talking and we realized we, we both had similar backgrounds and interests.

[00:14:24] Siebe Van Der Zee: I like it what you’re saying that indeed, you know, to reach out, and be proactive based on your passion.

[00:14:31] Lesson 4: Don’t be afraid to ask for help.

[00:14:31] Siebe Van Der Zee: it kind of leads into lesson number four, don’t be afraid to ask for help. any thoughts, example on that?

[00:14:41] James Badman: Yeah, you know, in our industry, things can go sideways pretty quick.

[00:14:45] James Badman: And there’s been times where I’m like, oh, how did I get here? Why didn’t I stop myself? Why, you know, why didn’t I stop and ask for help? and, I know, this person knows, about this species or could have been giving me direction and, you know, not all of us know what is going on.

[00:15:02] James Badman: You know, a lot of people don’t know what I’m personally doing or going on in my life. And so, it may not be obvious I’m struggling. I think we’re quick to go, people should have seen I wasn’t doing well or struggling, but I think that, we also have an obligation to ourselves to say, to pause and say, hey, you know, think I’m, outside my realm of expertise, I need another tool in my toolbox.

[00:15:21] James Badman: I need to find help or, or get, get someone to help me, in my case, with the species I’m working with or, or life in general, I think. there was a stigma to, you’re not a very good or strong person if you need help. And it’s like, none of us know how to do everything,

[00:15:35] James Badman: And so, I appreciate when people reach out to me and help. And I, I’m not quick to go, ah, they should know better, you know, stuff like that. It’s like, I’ve done this a long time. I have a few more battle scars than the rest of them, you know? And so, what may be obvious to me, may not be to others.

[00:15:50] James Badman: And, and so again, it was like we were talking about a few minutes ago. I think roles are changing a little bit. I’m, I’m in a position now to be, mentoring and, and helping others. And, and want to make sure I’m doing that.

[00:16:02] Siebe Van Der Zee: You make some great points, James. indeed, when do you ask? sometimes perhaps it may feel like it’s too early.

[00:16:10] Siebe Van Der Zee: To ask for help, sometimes it feels that, well, after the fact, I should have asked for help earlier, so you’re basically too late. In your mind, when are you on time?

[00:16:20] James Badman: Yeah, that, I mean, a great question because, sometimes it’s just not obvious you’re underwater, and, I agree, it won’t help to be too far, in a problem, but, you know, I, try to, as soon as I feel like something’s going sideways, take a moment, And evaluate, go, you know, am I on course?

[00:16:40] James Badman: Do I need to make an adjustment? And do I need help? it’s a way I approach things. But I think that, because again, I feel like there’s a lot of times I’ve seen situations where I’m like, I could have helped this person. I could have. done, several things, your loan them stuff or whatever, and whatever the situation is and said, hey, here, use this or take this, this will, this will help you.

[00:17:02] James Badman: And I think that’s part of passing on the knowledge too, and, or being a mentor,

[00:17:05] Siebe Van Der Zee: Exactly being a mentor. And that’s, what I hear and value greatly in you because. Yes, you have learned that it’s okay to ask for help and don’t be afraid to ask for help. At the same time, you make it clear, I think, to our listeners that You are there to help.

[00:17:25] Siebe Van Der Zee: You take the initiative. If you see people that are on your team or in your network, and perhaps you observe them as maybe not, doing so well, it sounds like you are the one that will reach out to them to say, hey, can I help? Or let me help you with this or with that. Am I correct in making that sort of observation?

[00:17:48] James Badman: Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s, almost, you know, almost human nature. We don’t necessarily want to see people struggle, we want to, to help, but I will say it’s not always obvious, and that’s why, it’s important to make sure. Your needs are known as well, but absolutely.

[00:18:05] James Badman: I don’t want to see people struggling. And so, if there was something I could do to help someone, you know, I know I’d, I’d want to help because sometimes it’s just time that fixes things. It’s not like. they’re asking for financial help or, anything other than my time or a suggestion, or a loan of a, a tool or crate or whatever, you know, and stuff that, that could be easily, remedied,

[00:18:31] Siebe Van Der Zee: Would you… Say that most people are like that, or maybe not, because I can see a lot of things that are not going well in societies, and there are people that are in a great position, whether it’s financially or in other areas. Not everyone seems to have the need to reach out to other people and help them.

[00:18:52] Siebe Van Der Zee: Does that make you unique, or at least in a minority category of people that say, I do that automatically?

[00:19:00] James Badman: I want to, I want to believe that it’s, it’s the majority and it’s humankind that if we were, seeing someone struggle in a crowd, we would go over and, and, want to help someone, but, you know, you’re absolutely right.

[00:19:13] James Badman: it’s the mob mentality that can sometimes be, not, not friendly to, to an individual or, minority or, or, you know, a situation. but in general, I want to say, you know, I, I’d hope that most of us would want to help someone that we saw struggling, especially someone on our team or in, in our, in what we do, you know, I know there’s competitiveness.

[00:19:40] James Badman: I know, but You know, in the end, I would want to see, especially my friends, my, my community succeed, I don’t know that I’d find joy in seeing someone fail.

[00:19:52] Siebe Van Der Zee: Oh, and it’s definitely wisdom.

[00:19:55] Siebe Van Der Zee: thank you for sharing that thought process and that lesson, of course.

[00:20:01] Lesson 5: We all report to someone.

[00:20:01] Siebe Van Der Zee: Lesson number five, we all report to someone. Lots of thoughts come to my mind when you say that, but let’s start with your thoughts.

[00:20:11] James Badman: You know, when I was younger, and, working for a couple of facilities, every Friday night, all of us would get together, you know, all the employees and staff, we’d get together and, as you’re, you’re socializing, it always comes up and you’re talking shop and it’s the, you know, if I ran the show.

[00:20:27] James Badman: This is what I’d be doing and I, and I’d be doing this and this and this and this, right? And I’m sure my employees do it about me. I’m sure, the folks that are coming up under me are, doing that. And I think. What we all realize and in looking back, and I, again, it’s something Kirsten and I have talked about before.

[00:20:44] James Badman: We worked at a couple places together. you know, I’ve even gone back and said, if I ran the show back then, I would have done exactly what those bosses done because they report to people, they’re under, you know, financial pressures or from under pressures from above and. A lot of what they’re doing that we don’t see, is what’s keeping the company alive, keeping the place afloat, keeping them within regulatory boundaries, you know, and.

[00:21:15] James Badman: Now being in a senior position at ASU, owning my own companies, I’m that decision maker. And like I said, I’m sure, you know, it’s being said about me, because I’m not always sharing, hey guys, we’re lean, we’re in low cash mode, or, you know, it’s been a slow summer or, or whatever.

[00:21:30] James Badman: And I’m not here to share the stress of the company on them, but it affects my decision-making process. You know, and everyone thinks to themselves, oh, he’s the owner, he doesn’t report to anyone. He’s just making these decisions and they’re not always the best decisions.

[00:21:44] James Badman: And, as an owner, know, if I have no customers, I have no business I see it, even in the political climate, oh, he’s the president, but, he reports to all of us, and if we’re unhappy, he will not be re-elected, and I.

[00:21:57] James Badman: I think everyone thinks, Oh, this person’s at the top, and we’re just at their whim and that’s not the case. And, it was, that was an interesting lesson for me to learn,

[00:22:06] Siebe Van Der Zee: I don’t know if you put it in that perspective, but if you look at, whether they are, students or customers, or perhaps even in your case, your animals, well, you don’t report.

[00:22:19] Siebe Van Der Zee: To the tortoises, I understand that, but they have certain requirements that you have to live up to. And, and so, we all report to someone or at least in that sense, let’s include the animals today. because that matters as well, right? I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s not only the people above you. And the people that they report to above them, it just, it’s just being responsible.

[00:22:46] Siebe Van Der Zee: So, very, very interesting point.

[00:22:49] Affiliate Break

[00:22:49] Siebe Van Der Zee: we’re talking today with James Badman, a successful entrepreneur and university director with a lifelong passion for exotic animals, sharing his 10 Lessons Learned. I want to thank our affiliate partner Audible. Audible is an amazing way to experience our program 10 Lessons Learned, but also books and other podcasts, allowing you to build a library of knowledge all in one place.

[00:23:13] Siebe Van Der Zee: You can start your free 30-day trial by going to audible trial.com/10lessonslearned. Again, that’s audible trial.com/10lessonslearned all lowercase to get your free 30-day subscription.

[00:23:29] Lesson 6: You are only on top for so long, so always look to improve or reinvent yourself.

[00:23:29] Siebe Van Der Zee: Alright, moving along, lesson number six. You are only on top for so long, so always look to improve or reinvent yourself.

[00:23:39] Siebe Van Der Zee: I like it, but please explain.

[00:23:41] James Badman: Well, you know, as a business owner, you do peak and If you’re not reinventing yourself, you peak and then that, starts to, dwindle whether competitors start doing what you’re doing and pulling the market away from you to someone does something better.

[00:23:56] James Badman: but in everything I’ve done, I, I’ve noticed that you do hit a peak and, and like I said, you, you have to reinvent yourself. You need to move. Or change roles, maybe get more education. but I think there’s always something that you can do. I would say make sure you enjoy your success, but.

[00:24:15] James Badman: Be aware that you, you know, to continue that success, you definitely need to be reinvesting back into, some, some form of, of change.

[00:24:23] Siebe Van Der Zee: Now, you have been actively involved in the animal industry for 30 years. What’s your next move, your next career? And we’ll keep it confidential with, I don’t know, a few thousand listeners.

[00:24:37] Siebe Van Der Zee: But are you looking at yourself as well as, moving on, and reinventing yourself, perhaps, into the future.

[00:24:44] James Badman: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, a lot of what I, do is, is based on my interest, but, you know, there, there is a, a, a financial side. I do have to raise some species that, you know, bring money into the farm and stuff so that I can afford to do what I’m doing.

[00:25:00] James Badman: And sometimes that’s, you know, seeing what, what, what species people are interested in, you know, and it’s cyclical. And I’ve always felt that if you do what you enjoy or, you know, raise a species that you, really enjoy or comfortable with, want to breed, you’ll be in that cyclical cycle somewhere at some point.

[00:25:18] James Badman: And, and, you know, there’ll be a demand for, for, what you do. but it’s really driven by my interests, but you can’t do only that. like I said, I, I do have to focus some on species that, that are of interest to others. So, you know, it’s, it’s the way the business rolls,

[00:25:33] Siebe Van Der Zee: Makes sense. Makes sense.

[00:25:35] Lesson 7: Remember that even when things are not going well, there is a lesson to be learned.

[00:25:35] Siebe Van Der Zee: Lesson number seven. Wow. Remember that even when things are not going well, there is a lesson to be learned. I’m thinking 10 lessons learned. That’s why we’re here, right? But, please, share your thoughts on that one.

[00:25:49] James Badman: absolutely. You know, sometimes, you know, like we talked about earlier, you know, sometimes projects are going sideways.

[00:25:55] James Badman: I’ve been in a position where I’m like, or working a job and I’m like, this is not going well. And sometimes that lesson is this is not what I want to do. or the species that I’m working for. You know, I, I live in Mesa, right outside Phoenix.

[00:26:11] James Badman: And so, you know, we have harsh summers and mild winters and it’s very dry here. and, and so to, to pick a tropical species that likes very cool weather, would not be my best idea, but there’s times we try different things, and it doesn’t work and, I tell myself, you know, I, I’m, I’m learning a lesson.

[00:26:33] James Badman: I’ve learned a lesson. And this is one I’ve been able to teach my kids recently, where I’ve said, one of them had a job, a position that didn’t She didn’t care for, and I said, you’ve learned this is not the path you want to go down. This is not what you want to do.

[00:26:46] James Badman: And you need to do a little correction and change, you know, you want to be in this industry, but not do this. And, and so, like I said, I always believe, there there’s a lesson to be learned even when it’s not going well. And sometimes it’s, I don’t want to work here.

[00:26:59] James Badman: I don’t want to do this. or. You know, this company wasn’t a good company or to do business with, you know, so whatever that lesson may be.

[00:27:07] Siebe Van Der Zee: Not putting you on the spot, James, but have you ever dealt with failure in your life or in your career and perhaps lessons learned from that?

[00:27:17] James Badman: Oh, absolutely.

[00:27:18] James Badman: You know, that, that’s, I think some of my biggest lessons have been from failure. it does teach you a lesson and, I think you, you should not be afraid to try things worrying about failure. You should, definitely put yourself out there, try something.

[00:27:34] James Badman: If it, if it fails, you’ve learned a lesson, you’ve learned what not to do, or, and sometimes it’s just a course correction. If I would have done this midway through, I would have been successful. I don’t go into something fearing failure. I go in hoping, you know, obviously for the best, but some, sometimes things don’t work out,

[00:27:51] Siebe Van Der Zee: Good point. Very true.

[00:27:53] Lesson 8: Put yourself out there.

[00:27:53] Siebe Van Der Zee: Lesson number eight. Put yourself out there. Not easy for most people, right?

[00:27:59] James Badman: true, true. So, I believe, myself included, you know, a lot of animal people, you know, we work with animals cause we’re introverts. we’re not the one, out there in a crowd of people, dancing in the center of the crowd. we’re the one on the outskirts, kind of watching everything, doing everything.

[00:28:15] James Badman: it, this is the hardest one for me, you know, I, it’s, it’s not my thing. I’m comfortable with routine. I don’t necessarily want change and I, this is also one that I’m most proud of my daughters, of, especially my youngest daughter, you know, very shy and, and, and overcame it and always putting herself out there.

[00:28:35] James Badman: I’m impressed. and, not only putting yourself out there, I mean, giving 100%, and trying, you know, and I feel that, I need to do it more, you know, I, I feel like it’s very, very important. And that’s how you learn new things.

[00:28:49] James Badman: That’s how you meet new people. That’s how you, you know, you, you get new experiences. And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve walked away going. One, it wasn’t as hard, you go into it dreading it and I’m like, man, I don’t know why I was dreading it. It was actually kind of fun, and I had a great time, I tell myself, you know, you need to put yourself out there.

[00:29:06] James Badman: You got to try stuff. You got to, and something I wish I would have been. more proactive at when I was younger doing, you know, and, and again, you know, very proud of my, my children for, for doing it, my kids, cause they really, really, you know, I tell them all the time, you, you, you got to put it out, put it out there.

[00:29:23] James Badman: Sometimes we have to do what we don’t want to do. And, and, and, and proud for the, the experiences and things they have tried.

[00:29:30] Siebe Van Der Zee: You say it so well, and obviously you have. Your proof from your own life career, but then when you talk about your daughters, makes it even stronger. and it is uncomfortable for many people and well, for everybody, I want to say, not everybody perhaps, but to reach out and say, hey, I’m going to, you know, put myself out there, like you say.

[00:29:50] Siebe Van Der Zee: but then afterwards, and that’s what I hear from you as well. it’s more like. Yeah, I’m glad I did that. I’m glad I got that experience. And, sure, I can do it again next time. And if you don’t try it, if you don’t put yourself out there, then you’ll never know if that would have been a good experience or perhaps not so good.

[00:30:11] Siebe Van Der Zee: That can happen as well, of course, but you learn from it. And that’s the point that you’re making.

[00:30:16] James Badman: Absolutely. And I, I’ve always been so impressed. I have a, a, a really close friend that, I mean, he can enter a room and start talking to anybody. I, I’ve always been so impressed by that, you know, and, and, you know, I, I’m fretting over how to start the conversation.

[00:30:32] James Badman: You know, you end up, I’ll end up paired with someone who’s not an animal person. And I’m thinking, that’s all I know. That’s all I, you know, I don’t, I, you know, I’m, I’m not that much into sports or anything like that. And so, then you’re like, I don’t have anything to talk about, you know, this is not,

[00:30:48] Siebe Van Der Zee: you know, a lot more James.

[00:30:49] Siebe Van Der Zee: There’s no doubt about it. And we’re. Learning from you. So definitely keep that going.

[00:30:55] Lesson 9: You have to work to be happy.

[00:30:55] Siebe Van Der Zee: Lesson number nine, you have to work to be happy. I’ll let you start because I have questions.

[00:31:01] James Badman: I come into work every day and I, I greet my staff and they’re always like, you know, man, you’re, you’re always so happy.

[00:31:06] James Badman: You start with good morning, and, you know, we have.an over full day, you know, there’s already, you know, you’re going into it knowing there’s too much work and not enough time. And, or we have some very difficult tasks, or we have a very difficult conversation, and this was something that, that really, was taught to me by Kirsten, you know, my wife,

[00:31:23] James Badman: don’t dwell on the negative. Stay positive. And you got to work to be happy. You got to work to, to go, okay, you know, we’re, yes, it is going to be a very full day. We’re going to get through this. We’re going to maybe have some fun doing some of it. And it’s something that,

[00:31:36] James Badman: I think, you know, there are days it’s, it’s hard to wear a smile, but, you know, I’m thinking to myself, I’m here to be rallying the troops and keeping everyone motivated and happy. and, I remember, as an employee was, you know, when the boss is unhappy and walks in and sets a bad tone, we all are unhappy and we know it’s not going to be a good day and, no one wants to work.

[00:31:58] James Badman: like that. I mean, people, I can’t keep employees, or I can’t, and I’m thinking myself, well, you’re also one of the most negative people I know. So, you know, I, I’m thinking, you know, maybe, changing the mood or the climate of the business, or the atmosphere of the business.

[00:32:09] James Badman: But I think just personally, overall, I, you, it does take work to be happy, you know, and, and if you’re unhappy, it’s like rooting out the source of that unhappiness. Find out why you’re unhappy and what you can do to improve. Your overall happiness. I’ve had jobs that I’ve, I’ve hated, you know, or worked for, a boss that I, I’m just like, you know, this is the, the, um, you know, most negative person I’ve ever had to work for.

[00:32:37] James Badman: And the glass isn’t half empty, it’s half empty, cracked, leaking, you know, I mean, they, they can just find every. Reason why, it’s going to be bad. And, and I’m thinking to myself, I don’t want to be here. I don’t want to work here. And it definitely affects the way I feel. So, I try to remember that I walk in, you know, I greet everyone.

[00:32:53] James Badman: Good morning. And had them say to me, what’s good about today? And I’m like, you know, we’re, we’re here, we’re here to. do what we need to do to get, get the job done and, and maybe have some fun during it.

[00:33:04] Siebe Van Der Zee: You have to be happy. So, it makes sense to me.

[00:33:07] Lesson 10: Give back, when you can.

[00:33:07] Siebe Van Der Zee: number 10. We’re there. 10 lessons. Give back when you can. I’m at this point, no longer surprised that you bring that up as a lesson.

[00:33:16] Siebe Van Der Zee: And, obviously, I’m, curious about why giving back is so important to you. I don’t disagree. Don’t get me wrong, but clearly that is important to you.

[00:33:26] James Badman: Yes, because, I, I kind of feel like what I do is like a dying industry, we’re, we’re not seeing the younger generation, wanting to be in nature with, working with animals, and, you know, I, I got so much out of it and, and so much, joy out of it and appreciation.

[00:33:44] James Badman: And in fact, both. Yeah. My wife and I, you know, we’re both really animal people. And so, I felt like we got so much out of it. I want to give back. And so, we, we really support, the 4 programs, which I know this is an international, podcast But, those are, youth organizations here for agriculture, you know, for, kids to work in agriculture with, domestic animals and stuff.

[00:34:09] James Badman: And so, Kirsten and I really pour into those programs, because we both got something. They were both starts for us as well. And, if I can bring that joy or appreciation to a younger generation and get them involved, then maybe they’ll, they’ll stay in this industry and work it and find the passion that I have, in it and, and be able to do it.

[00:34:31] James Badman: And, and I think. No matter what you do, it’s part of giving back. I have gotten so much out of it. I’ve been, had a very full career and blessed with some, successful businesses. and so, part of that is, like we talked about before, you’re only on top for so long.

[00:34:46] James Badman: I would like to see others have the, do the, do even better than what I’ve done. or even. You know, find a breeder that is even more successful than me, that would really. Bring me happiness to know that I’ve contributed.

[00:35:00] Siebe Van Der Zee: Again, a very important point. And I already hear in the success of perhaps people that you have guided, trained, parented, their success. is a way of giving back to you all the time, right?

[00:35:14] James Badman: Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:35:15] Siebe Van Der Zee: That’s, that’s where you get hopefully satisfaction that you say, wow, if I look back at what this person has done with your help, with your guidance, that feels good to you, of course.

[00:35:27] James Badman: Yes. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:35:29] Siebe Van Der Zee: Excellent point. Excellent stuff. I have another question that I want to ask you. are there any lessons that you have learned in life, in your career, that perhaps after time that you have unlearned, decided, no longer, I’m going to do it differently. Does anything come to mind?

[00:35:48] James Badman: you know, I, I, I’m a very driven person and I always.

[00:35:54] James Badman: found that I felt success in my accomplishments and, I guess more of a lesson that I’m trying to maybe not unlearn, but teach myself now is, you know, I really do need to slow down and enjoy, what’s going on and, you know, the, the accomplishments of my kids or, or, or Kirsten or, making sure that I’m not missing.

[00:36:16] James Badman: that I, you know, it’s the old, you know, was it stop and smell the roses or, you know, and I, I feel that sometimes I’m, I’m so focused or, driven and, and in knowing where I need to be. And so, I’ve got blinders on, and I’m not appreciating where I am now. And I, I feel like, you know, it, you know, we’re, we’re always learning and, it’s a lesson that.

[00:36:42] James Badman: You know, I, I’m telling myself now, you know, make sure you’re, you know, and it’s something that I think you probably see as you’re older. I feel like as I get older, I, you know, it’s like, you know, did I, did I miss something? Did I, you know, so, but I don’t know if that’s something I unlearned, but it’s something I’m teaching myself now.

[00:36:59] Siebe Van Der Zee: Well, you’ll get there, but it’s, it’s very valuable. And, James, I want to thank you for, for joining us today and for sharing your lessons of wisdom with our global audience. It’s much appreciated. I want to make some closing remarks. you have been listening to our international program, 10 Lessons Learned.

[00:37:20] Siebe Van Der Zee: This episode is produced as always by Robert Hossary and supported by the Professional Development Forum. Our guest today is James Badman, a successful entrepreneur and university director with a lifelong passion for exotic animals, sharing his 10 lessons learned. And to our audience, don’t forget to leave us a review or a comment.

[00:37:43] Siebe Van Der Zee: You can also email us at podcast at 10 lessons learned. That is podcast at number 10, one zero lessonslearned. com. I hope you will subscribe so that you don’t miss any future episodes. And remember, this is a podcast that

[00:37:59] Siebe Van Der Zee: makes the world wiser and wiser, lesson by lesson. Thank you and stay safe.

 This episode is produced by Robert Hossary. Sponsored as always by Professional Development Forum. You can find the www.professionaldevelopmentforum.org you’ve heard from us we’d like to hear from you. Email us it’s podcast@10lessonslearned.com. Remember, this is the podcast the only podcast. That’s makes the world wiser lesson by lesson.

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