Dale Stevens – You don’t know what you’re capable of.

Dale Stevens
Facing your fears, embracing change, and learning to 'do you' - Dale Stevens has done it all and is here to share her incredible journey and the lessons learned along the way. From landing a role in Mission Impossible to founding Playright, Dale's story is a testament to the power of persistence and authenticity. Join us for a deep dive into the lessons that have shaped her career and life. Hosted by Jeffery Wang

Subscribe with your favourite podcast app. 

About Dale Stevens

Dale Stevens is an actress from London who discovered her passion for acting at a very young age. Her journey took her from to Sydney, New Zealand and back to Melbourne as she pursued her love for the craft.
One of the pivotal moments in Dale’s career was landing a role in Mission Impossible, where she portrayed an assassin in front of famous US actors. This experience taught her that her best work happened when she was most afraid, which led her to make friends with her nerves.
Dale founded Playright to teach others to use acting techniques to navigate their way through life intentionally… Over the last 11 years, Dale has worked with lawyers, accountants, governments, entrepreneurs, telecommunications and budding speakers.
It turns out that there are ways of behaving that are common to all of us and as Dale says – human behaviour drives economics.

 

Episode Notes

Lesson 1: Do yourself. 02:45
Lesson 2: Don’t try to do better, do different. 05:25
Lesson 3: The truth will set you free. 07:48
Lesson 4: You don’t know what you’re capable of. 18:21
Lesson 5: Life’s a marathon, not a sprint. 20:54
Lesson 6: All the world’s a stage. 24:03
Lesson 7: Other people don’t know what you know. 28:17
Lesson 8: Your body language tells you who you are. 32:23
Lesson 9: Human Behaviour drives Economics. 35:10
Lesson 10: Choose Your Avatar. 36:25

Dale Stevens – You don’t know what you’re capable of

[00:00:08] Jeffery Wang: Hello and welcome to the podcast, 10 Lessons Learned. The podcast that makes the world a little wiser lesson by lesson. We uncover wisdom for career, business, and life to an international audience of rising leaders. In other words, you’ll find valuable insights that you can’t find in a textbook because it took us years to learn the stuff.
[00:00:27] Jeffery Wang: My name is Jeffery Wang, the founder of Professional Development Forum and your host.
[00:00:32] Jeffery Wang: Today we’re joined by Dale Stevens. Dale Stevens is an actress from London who discovered her passion for acting from a very young age. Her journey took her from London to Sydney, to New Zealand, and now back to Melbourne as she pursued her love of the craft.
[00:00:48] Jeffery Wang: One of the pivotal moments in Dale’s career was landing a role in Mission Impossible, where she portrayed an assassin in front of famous U. S. actors. This experience taught her that her best work happened when she was most afraid, which led her to make friends with her nerves. Dale founded playwright to teach others to use acting techniques to navigate their way through life intentionally.
[00:01:12] Jeffery Wang: Over the past 11 years, Dale has worked with lawyers, accountants, governments, entrepreneurs, telcos, and budding speakers. It turns out that there are ways of behaving that are common to us all, as Dale says. Human behaviour drives economics. Welcome! Dale.
[00:01:29] Dale Stevens: Thank you so much, Jeffery. I’m delighted to be here with you.
[00:01:32] Jeffery Wang: Well, I’m very excited to have a famous actress with us for the show. So, tell me what was it, what was it like working with Tom Cruise? Ah, yes. A common misconception. It was a Mission Impossible, the series, the real version. Oh, the real, the real Mission Impossible. This is the one we grew up watching with the match and the, you know, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, yeah, that one.
[00:01:58] Dale Stevens: Yes. Yeah.
[00:01:59] Dale Stevens: So, it was, it was an extraordinary experience, but yeah, with the nerves thing, I was really absolutely terrified, mainly when I was doing a scene by myself, I was working with the other actors. you just work off their energy, but I was doing this scene. So, I don’t know why I was so scared. I was sitting in a hotel room by myself wearing a red leotard with a gun planting a bomb, what could go wrong, right? A lot. And when I was watching it back with the other cast members, as my scene was coming up, I was sitting there terrified that it would be awful. And here I was in front of them, but it went brilliantly and that’s because of technique.
[00:02:38] Dale Stevens: So, technique is king. Nerves don’t matter. It’s technique, technique, technique.

[00:02:45] Lesson 1: Do yourself.

[00:02:45] Jeffery Wang: Brilliant. Which I’m sure we’ll get into in the course of the interview.
[00:02:50] Jeffery Wang: So how about let’s just jump straight into your 10 lessons then. Lesson number one, do yourself.
[00:02:57] Dale Stevens: Yeah, well, it’s, amazing. I’m an actor, and I’ve created all the techniques from acting techniques yet. I really didn’t embrace the acting part. I saw. So, I’ve been trying to hide behind it and, not really mention it a lot until I’ve done this new rebranding with this friend of mine. And then now I’m just like really embracing it and people get me more and they get what I do more because I go with what’s so different about me.
[00:03:25] Dale Stevens: And so often people, I mean, you look at consultants, they just all look the same and they don’t bring. Yes. Once. special about them. All our accounts look the same. Lawyers look the same. IT people look the same. Everyone looks the same, but if you can really embrace who you are, people love that, and they remember you and they have a personal connection with you and want to work with you.
[00:03:49] Jeffery Wang: Now that’s very interesting because as an actress, aren’t you supposed to be playing somebody else?
[00:03:53] Dale Stevens: well, you are, but what you’re doing is actually acting isn’t about pretending. It’s actually about tapping into deep universal human truths that relate to everyone. That’s why my work works for anyone because we all, people relate to people.
[00:04:11] Dale Stevens: So, it’s actually hunting for the truth in the situation. so yeah, it’s not, it’s, and I, I’m not a big fan of fake it till you make it. I think you want to be it till you become it.
[00:04:23] Jeffery Wang: Oh, I like that. And I’m sure we’ll get into that a little bit later, but in terms of doing yourself, being, well, doing yourself though, like what’s, what’s the moment when you realize that, I suppose that, that being you is, you know, is the best way to be, cause you know, as young kids, I remember, you know, we were all very self-conscious and we always wanted to do what’s to fit in.
[00:04:43] Jeffery Wang: So, what gave you that sort of aha moment where you realized that you needed to just be you?
[00:04:51] Dale Stevens: Well, I think is that that’s what I do with the people I coach.
[00:04:55] Dale Stevens: And then, I got coached myself by this, a brilliant man. And he, and he was giving me some great ideas and some strategies. And he said, you know, you have to do this first. You have to lead the way. And I was like, what? No, I just help other people do it. And he said, no, you have to do it. And that really put the pressure on me. And I thought if I can’t speak, to crowds, if I can’t be who I really am, then how am I supposed to get other people to be able to do it as well?

[00:05:25] Lesson 2: Don’t try to do better, do different.

[00:05:25] Jeffery Wang: Good stuff. All right. Well, lesson number two, and I think it’s somewhat related to lesson number one. Don’t try to do better, do different.
[00:05:32] Dale Stevens: Yeah, look, I think this is, critical part. The thing is, I was a dancer before I was an actor, and I love training. I really, really love training, but especially with public speaking, people will say that practice makes perfect.
[00:05:46] Dale Stevens: Now that is accurate, but practice makes perfect. So, all your bad habits, you’re practicing.
[00:05:53] Dale Stevens: So, if you just keep practicing the same old thing, then you’re just going to flatline, but there’s a thing called deliberate practice and that’s when you’ve got a coach. And so, what I’ll do is I’ll give someone a little bit, something different. To add in, and then something a little bit different to add in. And so, you end up with a trajectory that you end up, you do keep doing different until you’re just supremely better. So, it’s either, it kind of goes like this, either you’re kind of flatlining because you just, and you’re ingraining, embedding those bad habits in, in what you’re doing, particularly with public speaking. It’s why sometimes people who are really established public speakers are really boring because they. They’re just ingrained in those habits, but deliberate practice means you’re doing something a bit different all the time, and that’s how you end up better.
[00:06:41] Jeffery Wang: Okay, so, so I think that you’re talking to a mindset of how you, sort of better yourself and especially in this context of public speaking, so rather than trying to sort of emulate, you know, this is an idealized version of yourself, you’re trying to, Just improve certain elements until it becomes you, does it?
[00:07:03] Dale Stevens: Well, I think you have to change what you’re doing, and really you need someone to be able to coach you who is going to be able to give you techniques. It’s like a coach for basketball you can keep dribbling in the same way or shooting the same way, and you can keep practicing that, but you’re just not going to get any better.
[00:07:21] Dale Stevens: But if you have a coach that is giving you new techniques, new ways of doing it, and then you’re, doing different things all the time, then you’re going to get better. So, I think it’s a practical thing of you keep doing the same, you’re actually not getting better. But if you have to start doing something different to improve.
[00:07:39] Jeffery Wang: Okay. So, I get where you’re coming from. So, you can’t do better until you do something different. And so, it’s part of, yeah, stepping outside of your comfort zone. Awesome.

[00:07:48] Lesson 3: The truth will set you free.

[00:07:48] Jeffery Wang: All right. Lesson number three, the truth will set you free.
[00:07:52] Dale Stevens: Wow. This is the big one. And I think we’re, challenged today because, a lot of people talk about relative truth and my truth and your truth. And what they really mean by that is my story and your story.
[00:08:04] Dale Stevens: Everyone’s got a different story. Everyone’s got a different background, different personality, which is really precious and special, but the truth is, is truth. the laws of physics, you know, there’s, They’re the truth. For me, it’s Jesus Christ and his death and resurrection. That’s what my life is based on that truth.so I think that there are specific truths. There are truths about you, about your core values, about, your core strengths. These are truths. And I think that’s, that, will set you free, but if you start playing around with the truth and, then I think you’re in big trouble.
[00:08:42] Jeffery Wang: Oh, a hundred percent. And this is one of my biggest bugbears. I hear people talk about my truth all the time and what they’re really talking about is, you know, it is my perspective. And yes, it’s important everyone has a different perspective. And, you know, and we should all try and grapple with how other people see the world.
[00:09:01] Jeffery Wang: But ultimately, there is, and I think you alluded to before, there are universal truths that people share. There is something that we all share is common to humanity. And, and the human experience. and once we embrace that and accept that, things are the way they are, you will live a much happier life, I guess, knowing that there, there is the absolute truth, that, we all orientated towards. So how did you, how did you come to learn that lesson?
[00:09:31] Dale Stevens: Well, what a thing that I think is really interesting is that. we all want to belong. And I heard the other day, someone mentioned about Australia and saying that we have the spirit of rejection in Australia and that, because we came, we’re initially convicts here and that, that something really, really, really need to overcome.
[00:09:53] Dale Stevens: And I think that that’s, plays into the whole concept of acceptance of people. But a lot of times acceptance goes into, accepting all sorts of behaviours or accepting only some people. I think that there’s a big piece around acceptance. That we could really embrace. And, and really at the end of the day, we are one species. Human beings are one species. We all belong to that. And I think that that’s something that we can base everything on.
[00:10:23] Jeffery Wang: Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, having lived in different countries and different cultures, I can, I certainly have experienced that there are shared humanity amongst us all, what fulfills us.
[00:10:34] Jeffery Wang: You know, and you talked about how people want to be accepted. They want to belong. They want that security. You talk about Maslow’s hierarchy. I mean, that’s pretty much the same across all cultures. Yeah, there is that commonality across all people. Yeah.
[00:10:48] Jeffery Wang: And I 100 percent agree with that. but, but I guess what I struggle with is, you know, being in the show business, in that sort of industry, especially nowadays, yeah, you kind of see the, the, the culture that there is, and there’s almost, a bit of a, sort of, you know, there’s almost a bit of a, counterculture that’s going on, you know, makes it rather difficult for people of faith, to work in that industry, don’t you think?
[00:11:14] Dale Stevens: Oh, very much so, very much so, that there’s, there’s no question, really, when I was acting, I was really lucky because People weren’t so vocal about all these different views. Really, if you’re an actor, you’re part of the family.
[00:11:29] Dale Stevens: I mean, I remember when I was coming back from drama school in London and, coming back to America and I met all these, actors in New York. And they were just like, you’re an actor. Great. Oh gosh, I invite you here, invite you there. And so, you were just immediately a family. Whereas these days, if your political views or your religious views or your views on virtually anything, disagree with other people, there’s just so much division and I think that where, Hollywood’s been sort of really Hollywood’s in trouble really, because it’s just specific views.
[00:12:05] Dale Stevens: Really the whole point, as I said at the beginning, is that acting is supposed to be touching deep universal human truths so that we all can relate to each other. And we get this expands your experience, your human experience. That’s the point. So, if they’re, pushing certain ideologies and stuff like that, that’s not how you do it.
[00:12:29] Dale Stevens: It’s not how you do it. And so, I think that it’s too ideological and not, really deeply human enough at the moment, I think it’s very problematic.
[00:12:39] Jeffery Wang: Yeah, and the proof is in the pudding, right? In that, a lot of the films nowadays, a lot of these, productions that’s been pushing these ideological messages that are anti human, I suppose, or not aligned with a common human experience, it’s no wonder that my kids don’t relate to Star Wars the same way I did.
[00:12:59] Jeffery Wang: Because Star Wars was a hero’s journey, ultimately, it’s about a young farm boy, overcoming his fears so that he can triumph and, rescue his friends. and ultimately, it’s not about, Luke being a man. It’s about Luke going through a hero’s journey and overcoming his fears.
[00:13:18] Jeffery Wang: whereas I think the new series of Star Wars, basically it’s, it’s a, what we call a Mary Sue, you know, an overpowered character that has, that has nothing to overcome. and as a result of that, you know, people don’t have the same, They don’t identify with the film, they don’t feel strongly about the film, and as cool as the special effects are, and lightsabres, and all that, my children just don’t have the same love of Star Wars that I remember back in the days when we were growing up, and these, these pieces of art has to speak to something deeper within us that we know, to be true. for us to really enjoy this.
[00:13:56] Dale Stevens: I think that’s so true. And also, what I’ve noticed is with all the, Marvel movies They’re so juvenile,
[00:14:04] Dale Stevens: You know, good against bad. That’s it. It’s, they’re, they’re so juvenile. I remember when my son was growing up and he was, he used to always dress up in, Ninja Turtle outfits or, Spider Man and all that. And I said to the kindergarten teacher, I said, do you reckon that’s okay? What’s going on here? Kind of thing. And she said, she researched it and she said, it’s good because when you’re small, you could, you think in big pictures, not nuance and he’s doing, he’s relating to good and evil.
[00:14:31] Dale Stevens: And when you’re five years old. Oh, a four or whatever. That’s, that’s great when you’re small, but as you grow up, you’re supposed to have discernment and nuance and, and be able to go, oh, there’s good in bad and there’s bad in good, and okay, well, how does that play out? There’s, there’s a quote, and I think I hopefully I can do it correctly.
[00:14:52] Dale Stevens: It says, There’s so much good in, the bad people and so much bad in the good people. It’s best that we don’t judge any people.
[00:15:00] Jeffery Wang: No, there’s, there’s definitely wisdom in that. and I agree with I think sadly, because we want to avoid conflict, we’ve, we’ve steered away from these difficult conversations, how often do you hear, don’t talk about religion or politics and what we have is an entire generation of people that is incapable of grappling with different, difficult issues, difficult conversations. And, as you mentioned before, people can’t even be friends with you if you don’t share the same views or police, or you voted the wrong way. I mean, that, that’s not a sign of wisdom.
[00:15:32] Jeffery Wang: That’s a sign of, being a juvenile, you can only grapple with the world in black and white. which, is, sounds like a five-year-old, right? And, and I think as we grow up, we need to develop that ability to understand the world as it is. And that’s, as you said, various shades of gray and nuance.
[00:15:50] Dale Stevens: Yeah, and there’s also a concept which I really like is this concept of holding two opposing worldviews in your head at the same time, two opposing ideas. And I think that if you can do that, it’s really a sign of maturity. And, and, actually one of the most interesting conversations I’ve ever had.
[00:16:11] Dale Stevens: So, I was, you know, full confession, I was handing out how to vote cards for the Liberal Party and I was there and there was a young guy who was handing out for the Labor Party. Now, so, I’m over 50. Female, carnivore, Christian, conservative. Okay. He’s like about 35, so he’s young, male, Muslim, vegetarian, Labor voter. And we had the best conversation. So, I started off going, well, what’s so great about Labor? And he’d go, oh, this is that. And I go, well, what about this? This is, and he said, what about that? That, that, and we had this amazing conversation. It was just how I think conversations should be because there was no, emotion in it.
[00:16:55] Dale Stevens: There was no judgment in it. We were just going, what do you think about this? Or what do you think about that? And I think that that’s, I think that’s what we’re missing. I think that we need to have many more conversations like that. We’re just throwing ideas around. I think it would be great.
[00:17:09] Jeffery Wang: You don’t know what you don’t know until you become curious right? And I think probably the key to the polarization is to become curious around the other side, why would people come to these conclusions? And I think once we understand each other, then you realize that maybe, maybe perhaps, you know, there is some value to the other side and, you can become a more informed or form a better opinion after learning all that.
[00:17:34] Jeffery Wang: and so, and this, this is actually a very interesting, I think, philosophical discussion between many of us who are hosts at, 10 Lessons Learned. One of the lessons that we’ve heard, before was that, sometimes there’s no other side to the story and I’m of the view that there always is.
[00:17:48] Jeffery Wang: And even if there isn’t, even if it’s just the 1%, you need to seek it out. Because as soon as you start dismissing the other side, that could be a road down somewhere that you really don’t want to go.
[00:18:00] Dale Stevens: we probably have more that we share in common than what divides us. And, it doesn’t always have to be team sports, we don’t always have to barrack for our colours.
[00:18:08] Jeffery Wang: A lot of the times, it’s seeking that common humanity that will eventually, lead us to, I think a much better place. so that was a little bit of a diversion from our lessons, but, but you know, nevertheless, the truth will set you free.

[00:18:21] Lesson 4: You don’t know what you’re capable of

[00:18:21] Jeffery Wang: Lesson number four, you don’t know what you’re capable of.
[00:18:24] Dale Stevens: Oh, it’s so true. It’s so true. And that’s what I say with people I work with, you know, this, this one woman, she came to me, she was so nervous about speaking in front of people. She came at her in, at a rash at her own wedding. So, this woman was terrified. Yeah, she was brilliant. She was the big superannuation company doing brilliantly, head of sustainable investment.
[00:18:49] Dale Stevens: when she introduced me to her colleagues, she spoke really fast, fiddle with her hair and was, just awful. But then I worked with her and then she nailed this international industry panel, got quoted in the magazine. It was her photo. She was quoted, nailed that. Then she got her company to be one of 30 companies represented at the UN.
[00:19:14] Jeffery Wang: how did you make her do it?
[00:19:15] Dale Stevens: How did I make her do it? well, I, I taught her techniques, so I taught her posture so that her posture wasn’t working against her. I got her voice to be powerful rather than weak. And I gave her a structure for the panel. So that she could stay on track. We, I crafted her opening, well, I help when, when I craft people’s speeches, I actually take their words, I find out what they’re saying and then, use them. So, her opening line for the panel was, because I like them to talk about the philosophy. So, she started off saying at First State Super, our philosophy is all around members first.
[00:19:51] Dale Stevens: We’re investing 90 billion worth of their money, and it’s important that we do it sustainably. Pretty good opening.
[00:19:58] Jeffery Wang: There you go. Yeah. Right. And, and that gave her the confidence to go and tackle something that she was petrified of.
[00:20:05] Dale Stevens: Yeah. So, we had the opening, I gave her the structure and she stayed to that, but it’s also with the body language. I gave her resilient body language. I got a voice happening and then, the structure. And she just. Yeah. Yeah. it’s just now that she was interviewed and did a TV, not a video interview. She nailed that just, she found her, she found her voice and her way of being a professional way of being that was, Consistent with obviously how she had performed her job over these years. But she took that, that confidence and that ability into speaking on video, into speaking on a panel and into speaking in regard to the UN.
[00:20:48] Jeffery Wang: And, and so that would have elevated her, to even higher, higher heights, I guess. yeah. So well done. Well, done.

[00:20:54] Lesson 5: Life’s a marathon, not a sprint

[00:20:54] Jeffery Wang: Lesson number five, life’s a marathon, not a sprint.
[00:20:57] Dale Stevens: yeah, I’m a natural sprinter because, being an actor, you’re either on set. And so, you’re just, hanging around a lot and then you’ve got to be on set and switched on. In theatre, you’re just like, you on for two hours in the day and that, that’s it.
[00:21:11] Dale Stevens: but yeah, I had to learn to pace myself. And I think it’s actually a series of marathons because you start out in your project or something and it’s all great and it’s near the end when it’s really hurting, and the lactic acid is building up where you want to give up. and that’s when You push through and the great things happen, but that’s where a lot of people give up.
[00:21:32] Jeffery Wang: Right. So, but, but I guess, what, what’s your secret for pushing through? Is it a case of just becoming more mentally tough and, just push yourself through, or is there, like a greater purpose that you’ve got to, aspire to something that intrinsically motivate you?
[00:21:49] Dale Stevens: I think you have to be intrinsically motivated. No question. Extrinsically. Extrinsic, motivation is never going to work really. so, I think partly it’s, it is, it’s having that, the end, end in mind and
[00:22:00] Dale Stevens: being a bit of a dog with a bone. But the other thing is realizing that life is a mind game with yourself. So, whatever it takes, you know, wake up at four 30 in the morning or stay up to two o’clock in the night or when you need to, know yourself so that you actually, and pace yourself. I think it’s the pacing is Really and know where you’re at along the project. So, okay, as it gets near the end, it’s going to get harder and harder and harder. So, awareness of where you’re at and knowing who you are, I think is really important too.
[00:22:34] Jeffery Wang: Oh, indeed. And no doubt it’s tough, right? I’ve never done a marathon, but a friend of mine has, and, they, they speak about how it’s only towards the end when it really plays with your mind, because you’re in so much pain, so much suffering that, you know, everything in your body is just telling you to quit.
[00:22:50] Jeffery Wang: But it’s, it’s that persistence that, that eventually gets you there. And, and it’s, it’s such a mentally tough battle. and quite frankly, it’s probably more important to be mentally tough than to be physically fit when it comes to marathons. So interesting insight.
[00:23:04] Dale Stevens: It’s so true. And in business, often before a breakthrough, you can be like that. I mean, last year I was just getting really frustrated with what I was doing. And I knew that there were aspects of my business. not my actual work, but the business side that really weren’t working.
[00:23:19] Dale Stevens: And I was really frustrated, and it was driving me nuts. And I could probably feel that lactic acid kicking in. And, but that drove me to, get this new branding and everything. So that, I mean, if I hadn’t been so frustrated and been driven, then, I wouldn’t have had the breakthrough with the branding and everything. So, it’s a series of cycles of that sort of thing, but you’ve got to go, okay, this is lactic acid, this is not like, well, maybe I should go and do something else.
[00:23:47] Jeffery Wang: So, life is a marathon, not a sprint is also about not giving up after, just a short time and don’t expect to be an overnight success, because anything that’s worth doing you know, you have to, you have to put in a lot of effort. So, there you go.

[00:24:03] Lesson 6: All the world’s a stage

[00:24:03] Jeffery Wang: Lesson number six, all the world’s a stage. I can really sense an acting theme around this all, all the lessons.
[00:24:11] Dale Stevens: Yeah, well, the thing is we’re always acting. And what I’m always saying is that most people act unconsciously, just reacting to their present surroundings or their past experiences or their limiting beliefs in the same old patterns. and that’s why with my programs Playwright, it’s about acting consciously because you can actually create your own character. You can, create what you’re doing, where you’re going, the whole thing. Once you start getting conscious, and intentional with what you’re doing. And I think a lot of, professional development is based around this area.
[00:24:49] Dale Stevens: You know, conscious with your timing, you’re conscious who’s around you. I mean, I think playwright takes it just a bit more into your physical self, your body language, your voice, your intentions in every. interaction with people, but yeah, we’re always active and we’re always playing roles, but sometimes we’re playing roles that we don’t really want to play.
[00:25:11] Dale Stevens: You know, you don’t really want to be playing, the victim. You pretty much don’t want to be playing the victim. That’s a loser role. You know, I mean, it doesn’t mean that you can’t share hardships with people, But maybe you’re playing the role of a, supportive colleague or something like that, or a, a, even a trusted advisor can share things when things are tough, because sometimes you sharing those tough things can be helpful for your clients. So, it’s not that you don’t ever share things that are difficult, but you don’t want to be playing a victim.
[00:25:42] Jeffery Wang: No, I understand. yeah. So, what I’d take from that is, you approach your life, and I can kind of. Draw inspiration from a conversation I had with, a cultural expert, right? So certain cultures, their life is acting.
[00:25:55] Jeffery Wang: It’s all acted out. In fact, it’s probably, I’m thinking more Italians or, or Greeks, or even South Americans, you know, people who have a very expressive culture where, you don’t just live your life you act it out, everything’s a drama, they spoke about this, experience where they go into a bread shop in France and never get served, everyone else sort of pushes in, in front of them because, she was from a much more reserved culture in Ireland.
[00:26:19] Jeffery Wang: but all she had to do; she will figure it out. Then she has to just march in there and. Basically put the bag down and say, I’m here in Italian or whatever language she was in. And when that happens, then she got served. And so, it’s really interesting how your environment does react to how you act.
[00:26:37] Jeffery Wang: And I really liked the word you said, being intentional about it. Because yes, whatever we’re doing day to day, we are always playing a role. and being intentional about that make, gives us that success. But also, to pick you up on your point about not playing the victim, because victim is a role.
[00:26:55] Jeffery Wang: And what you choose to play does become your reality. And when you choose to play a victim, guess how the world is going to react to you. Now I understand completely when you say, sharing your hardships, and opening up on that does help, with being authentic, you know, being honest.
[00:27:14] Jeffery Wang: maybe you can clarify this for me. How do you, be authentic without being a victim.
[00:27:19] Dale Stevens: I suppose it’s, what do you want the outcome to be? That if you’re fishing for, someone to comfort you or someone to feel sorry for you, probably someone to feel sorry for you, then, then you’re probably down the victim line. But if you’re doing it to, to share something, to get closer to that person, if you’re doing it from an education point of view, that you’re trying to share something that would be helpful for them. Then it’s going, if your intention, everything’s about your intention, if your intention is to get a stronger, relationship with that person, then rather than them feel, fulfill your need of feeling comforted, then, chances are that you’re not going to be in the victim role. You’re actually, and it’s, I think it’s often, you’re focused on the other person and on the relationship.
[00:28:08] Jeffery Wang: I think you nailed it. You know, if it’s about yourself and yeah, that’s when you’ll turn into a victim. And if it’s about helping others, then yeah, yeah, there you go.

[00:28:17] Lesson 7: Other people don’t know what you know.

[00:28:17] Jeffery Wang: All right. Lesson number seven, other people don’t know what you know.
[00:28:20] Dale Stevens: Yeah. Ah, yes. So, I’m a firm believer that this is the biggest barrier to communication is that it’s so hard for us. To think, to not realize that other people don’t know what we know. So, I mean, especially if you’re, speaking to someone who has similar background or similar knowledge and experience to you, and you think, oh, they know everything I know.
[00:28:45] Dale Stevens: And then you sort of start from there and. And kind of go to a higher level, whereas really you almost can’t be too basic when you’re speaking. And there’s a, a beautiful concept, which says when you’re speaking to an audience to never underestimate their intelligence, but never overestimate their knowledge.
[00:29:09] Dale Stevens: And I think that that’s so beautiful as you can be real, you just don’t treat them like idiots, but you can be really basic. I’ve worked with lawyers where, and I’ve said, you know, what did you get most out of with work with me? And they said the most basic things I do just about body language and just about keeping their chest up and the power pose and their body language.
[00:29:28] Dale Stevens: That is the most basic thing that I work with people. and that’s what they love the most. So don’t assume that, that people pretty much know, know anything about it. I think there’s Three, groups of people in any room. people who know nothing about what you’re talking about. Okay. It’s something new, people who know a little bit about it. And so, they can be reminded. And the other is people, if they know masses about it, they can look deeper, be encouraged to look deeper at it. So, you never have to worry about, how much anyone knows.
[00:30:00] Jeffery Wang: And that’s very important.
[00:30:02] Jeffery Wang: And I myself have fallen victim to this. I assume that everyone knows everything I know and anything I know is probably, general knowledge that everybody already know. and, and quite often than not, I find myself quiet, blown away by, things that I thought would be basic. And yet, you know, I, you know, and, and, and an interesting test to do is this, and you might consider yourself, an expert in say acting in the world of acting, but how often do you find things that you think you ought to have known and yet you know nothing about? And that’s what I find myself in that, the, even as, as someone who’s a proficient in the field or, or maybe even an expert, there’s always stuff that you can learn.
[00:30:44] Jeffery Wang: Yeah. But at the same time, what I really like about what you said, never underestimate the audience intelligence, is that you’re not condescending in how you put that across, I mean, yes, you’re there to share your knowledge, but you’re not there to lecture them, you’re there to, to ensure that they need to know something And you want to pass that knowledge on, and I reflect on the recent experience where I was, sharing, you know, a piece of, or essentially about how to communicate effectively, in what I believe is some pretty basic techniques.
[00:31:14] Jeffery Wang: And I was just blown away by how many people that came up later and thanked me for sharing something which I thought everybody should, know.
[00:31:22] Dale Stevens: Yeah. Yeah, that’s right. And look, even if, even if you’re, talking about the exact same technique, you’re doing it from your perspective, which is different already.
[00:31:31] Dale Stevens: So, you just never have to be worried that, that what you’re saying is not brand new or whatever. And my clients don’t really like it when I say it, but I say, I want you to imagine you’re talking to an eight-year-old child. and if you’re doing that, then you’re probably doing it right. right.
[00:31:49] Jeffery Wang: indeed. And it’s not because they’re stupid. It’s because you want that clarity in your communication and when you can simplify something, that simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, right? Knowing how to communicate something to an eight-year-old requires you to have such a deep understanding of the subject matter and be so clear in how you express it.
[00:32:10] Jeffery Wang: in order to be able to do that. So, I actually think that that in itself is a very essential skill, to have. So, yeah, so that, that’s something that I’m very, very, a big fan of. So other people don’t know what you know. I like that lesson.

[00:32:23] Lesson 8: Your body language tells you who you are.

[00:32:23] Dale Stevens: And on that theme of communications, lesson number eight, your body language tells you who you are.
[00:32:29] Dale Stevens: Ah, yes. Most people understand that, you know, your body language communicates to other people and that is massively important. There’s no question about that. But what’s so interesting is it actually.
[00:32:43] Dale Stevens: The body language talks to you as well. And so if you’re, I mean, most times we’re a bit slumped and if we slump a bit further, then our brain can go into that fight, flight, freeze, we want to run away or we want to brace, we want to fight it out or we just rabbit in the headlights. And so, our body language is telling our brain. How things are going, cause your brain is in the dark. And so. just by, lifting up your chest, just by thinking taller and calmer, just by grounding your feet, you telling your brain that you are. resilient, that you are in control, that nothing’s bothered going to bother you. Also, I’ve got this technique, which is very unusual, which is about, an acting technique about animal characteristics. And so that’s all around, like a swan, which is elegant, poised, gliding. So, if you see yourself as a swan, then you will start acting in a cool, calm, collected way. then there’s the horse, strong, powerful, confident, or you can be the. Dog friendly, easy-going, playful, which is probably my natural personality. I have to calm that for business.
[00:33:54] Dale Stevens: And then it’s the cat, which is kind of unpredictable and aloof. And so, you can use these animal characteristics to be more versatile in situations. But then again, if you’re being, if your body is actually being versatile, then you see yourself as an adaptable, versatile person who can absolutely handle anything.
[00:34:18] Jeffery Wang: Yeah. And the reality is that your, your surroundings react to you too. So, it’s almost a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy when you go out there and behave in a certain way, that’s reflected back to you exactly that. And, then it probably gets into a, a positive feedback loop and all of a sudden next thing you know you’ve got all the confidence in the world.
[00:34:38] Jeffery Wang: So great, advice and I’ll also relate that to watching my, kids, playing basketball, in the game, body language, you can really tell the morale of the team, you speak about that, but the reality is that you can tell if they’re already beaten by the body language.
[00:34:54] Jeffery Wang: And quite often than not, the game’s outcome’s not determined until, the final buzzer sounds, but however, you can give up long before that, if you send the wrong message to yourself and also to your opponents, so. Definitely a very important lesson there.

[00:35:10] Lesson 9: Human Behaviour drives Economics.

[00:35:10] Jeffery Wang: Uh, lesson number nine.
[00:35:12] Jeffery Wang: Now you mentioned this before, human behaviour drives economics. This sounds like something, this is actually quite unique, and I must admit, I don’t, don’t really know what, what you mean by this.
[00:35:22] Dale Stevens: Okay.
[00:35:23] Dale Stevens: So how you show up, everything that you do and how you do it, is what drives all your results. So, economics is not just financial economics is in your relationships, in your, the mastery of techniques, absolutely all the results in your life. So, economics encompasses all that is all driven by your behaviour. It’s driven by how you use your body, how you use your voice, how you create relationships, how you manage those relationships, everything you do and how you do it is what drives the results.
[00:35:59] Jeffery Wang: Okay. That makes perfect sense to me as a sales, representative. that’s a hundred percent it, you know, a lot of it essentially. I mean, yes, there’s products, there’s price, but ultimately people buy from people. And, how they judge your offering. you know, the, the sales rep has a massive influence on how you represent, your organization.
[00:36:22] Jeffery Wang: So yeah, a hundred percent. I’m, I’m with you there.

[00:36:25] Lesson 10: Choose Your Avatar

[00:36:25] Jeffery Wang: that brings us to our final lesson, lesson number 10. And this sounds like a reference to a computer game. Choose your avatar.
[00:36:34] Dale Stevens: Yes. Well, it’s very interesting. the story of Meryl Streep because Meryl Streep when she was in high school, she had mousey brown hair. She was very nerd, had glasses and braces, read a lot, hung out with her nerdy kids and Whatever reason she decided that she’d like to be the homecoming queen. And she had a very different vision for her life than the way it was going. And so, she decided to get rid of her glasses, to have her braces taken off.
[00:37:03] Dale Stevens: She bleached her hair with lemon, and she played the role of the popular girl. And she even took on certain characteristics that popular girls were doing, and she became the homecoming queen. She dated the football star, and she created a character for herself, in a very short period of time and became who she wanted to be.
[00:37:27] Dale Stevens: And I just believe that we can all do that. because I think that as we grow up, we are formed in relation to our surroundings. And how to get those relationships to work for us and all that. And then as we become adults, I think that we can really choose every aspect of our character to be aligned.
[00:37:50] Dale Stevens: To be authentic to me is being aligned so that your body language, your voice, what you say, how you say it, where you go, what you do, who you, communicate with, who you hang around with, everything is all aligned. And if you start choosing those things, then you become truly authentic and truly you.
[00:38:11] Jeffery Wang: Okay. So, I think I’ll relate that back to when you’re saying becoming intentional about it. But I guess I’ll just play the devil’s advocate here. I it sounds rather manipulative, doesn’t it? I mean, the thing is, it’s an age old, people say that they fake it till you make it, you know, and I know you’re not, you mentioned before, you’re not a fan of that.
[00:38:31] Jeffery Wang: So how do you reinvent yourself, without seemingly just manipulating, how do you remain authentic to who you are, and yet somehow. just change the way you project.
[00:38:42] Dale Stevens: I think life is a mind game with yourself. And, and so I think you just choose and, but it’s like a child learning to walk, you know, you want to walk. And so, you stumble, and you just try stuff on for size. You know, you just speak in a certain way, act in a certain way and go, well, is that really me? Do I want to be that? And you just, by trial and error. And, and also, as you said before, it’s a loop with other people. If you like the way they’re responding to you, I had an experience with, John Voigt, the actor, the Academy Award winning actor, brilliant actor, worked with him in New Zealand.
[00:39:17] Dale Stevens: Unbelievable experience. And we worked, we were working on this scene, we’re doing lines together. And during it, he said to me, oh, you should do comedy. And I thought, Oh, yeah. What? I should do comedy? You shouldn’t be saying that. You should be saying I should be doing Shakespeare, and you should be taking me back to America so I could do Shakespeare with you and Al Pacino.
[00:39:37] Dale Stevens: What do you mean I should do comedy? And I was just really thrown by it. And then I thought, well, is that how I’m coming across? Am I just so light? Am I, I mean, I love to make people laugh. I adore it, but I was doing that all the time. And I just thought, well, you know, in my private life, that’s fine.
[00:39:56] Dale Stevens: But professionally, I don’t want to be someone who is just, who is funny.
[00:40:00] Dale Stevens: I mean, I’m not a standup comedian. I don’t, I don’t want people to just laugh all the time because you can’t have two that, that you’ve really taken seriously. So, I think that you can watch how people respond to you. And I mean, maybe if I wanted to be that, if I wanted to do comedy or I wanted everyone to laugh at me all the time, that’s what I wanted.
[00:40:19] Dale Stevens: I could have embraced that more. So, I think it’s just this constant experiment. where you’re watching how people respond to you. and if you don’t like it, change something about you, don’t try and change them.
[00:40:32] Jeffery Wang: Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. So, so what you’re saying is that it’s basically just a part of growing up, you know, it’s a process where you grow into it.
[00:40:41] Jeffery Wang: So, being intentional about that choice allows you to essentially grow as a person and being intentional also allows you to grow in the direction that you ultimately want to head in life. So that is, that is wisdom indeed. So, it’s not necessarily, we don’t think of it as a manipulative, you’re pretending to be somebody who you’re not, but you’re actually growing into somebody who you want to become.
[00:41:06] Jeffery Wang: And I think that’s a much better way to look at it.
[00:41:08] Jeffery Wang: All right. Well, thank you for that. So that’s a, that’s the last of the 10 lessons. And as, as we do as a tradition here at 10 lessons, we love to throw our guests a curveball. And, and what we do is we ask them, what have you unlearned in your life? So, something that you believe to be ironclad truth when you’re starting out in life, but then later learn that it’s just complete bollocks.
[00:41:31] Dale Stevens: Hmm. I think goal setting.
[00:41:34] Jeffery Wang: Goal setting. Goal setting is a waste of time or is it just, just not working?
[00:41:39] Dale Stevens: I know I I’ve tried it so many times and, yeah, look, I think it does work for some people. It definitely works for Arnold Schwarzenegger. He’s, you know, he’s like nailed the goal setting, like every year, apparently, he set goals, and he achieved them all. So, if that’s your personality and it works for you, fantastic. But if you’re an artistic spirit like me, it I’m, I’m so driven to get better. I’m so driven to, kind of excel in business. I’m driven to create phenomenal results for my, the people I work with. I’m driven to do all these things. I like creating great habits and, great ways of working so that, that the process drives me.
[00:42:25] Dale Stevens: I love training. I love the process. I love getting better. So, the goals kind of. just, yeah, don’t really work for me.
[00:42:34] Jeffery Wang: So why would you suggest just don’t set goals?
[00:42:37] Dale Stevens: Well, I don’t know. I probably should set more goals, but, but I think know yourself. and everything comes down to know yourself and create your own life.
[00:42:46] Dale Stevens: Either life creates you or you create your life. That’s it.
[00:42:50] Jeffery Wang: So, so long as you’re intentional about creating that life, you don’t need to stick to hard goals and just sort of feel bad about not achieving it. All right. Well, that’s a, that’s a definitely a piece of wisdom there as well.
[00:43:00] Jeffery Wang: So, thank you very much. It’s been the most pleasurable, talking to you, you know, always fun to, to talk to a creative, you know, as, as I’ve always had an interest in the, in the performing arts since, since my uni days. It’s, it’s, you know, it was something that I, I, I learned from a very young age that has a massive impact on what you could do with your life.
[00:43:21] Jeffery Wang: So, thanks for sharing all of that. And thank you for being on the show, Dale.
[00:43:25] Dale Stevens: Oh, it’s been such a pleasure. I love the way you go deep into topics rather than just float on the top. So, thank you.
[00:43:33] Jeffery Wang: Thanks. And we will finish on that note.
[00:43:35] Jeffery Wang: You’ve been listening to 10 Lessons Learned, the podcast that makes the world a little wiser, lesson by lesson. We’re joined today by our special guest, Dale Stevens. This episode is produced by Robert Hossary and sponsored by the Professional Development Forum. Don’t forget to leave us a review or comment.
[00:43:52] Jeffery Wang: You can even email us at podcasts@10lessonslearned.com. That’s podcast at number 1 0 lessonslearned. com. Go ahead and hit that subscribe button so that you don’t miss an episode of the only podcast that makes the world a little wiser, lesson by lesson. Thanks for tuning in and stay safe, everyone.

 This episode is produced by Robert Hossary. Sponsored as always by Professional Development Forum. You can find the www.professionaldevelopmentforum.org you’ve heard from us we’d like to hear from you. Email us it’s podcast@10lessonslearned.com. Remember, this is the podcast the only podcast. That’s makes the world wiser lesson by lesson.

Dale Stevens

Dale Stevens – You don’t know what you’re capable of.

Facing your fears, embracing change, and learning to 'do you' - Dale Stevens has done it all and is here to share her incredible journey and the lessons learned along the way. From landing a role in Mission Impossible to founding Playright, Dale's story is a testament to the power of persistence and authenticity. Join us for a deep dive into the lessons that have shaped her career and life. Hosted by Jeffery Wang

About Dale Stevens

Dale Stevens is an actress from London who discovered her passion for acting at a very young age. Her journey took her from to Sydney, New Zealand and back to Melbourne as she pursued her love for the craft.
One of the pivotal moments in Dale’s career was landing a role in Mission Impossible, where she portrayed an assassin in front of famous US actors. This experience taught her that her best work happened when she was most afraid, which led her to make friends with her nerves.
Dale founded Playright to teach others to use acting techniques to navigate their way through life intentionally… Over the last 11 years, Dale has worked with lawyers, accountants, governments, entrepreneurs, telecommunications and budding speakers.
It turns out that there are ways of behaving that are common to all of us and as Dale says – human behaviour drives economics.

 

Episode Notes

Lesson 1: Do yourself. 02:45
Lesson 2: Don’t try to do better, do different. 05:25
Lesson 3: The truth will set you free. 07:48
Lesson 4: You don’t know what you’re capable of. 18:21
Lesson 5: Life’s a marathon, not a sprint. 20:54
Lesson 6: All the world’s a stage. 24:03
Lesson 7: Other people don’t know what you know. 28:17
Lesson 8: Your body language tells you who you are. 32:23
Lesson 9: Human Behaviour drives Economics. 35:10
Lesson 10: Choose Your Avatar. 36:25

Dale Stevens – You don’t know what you’re capable of

[00:00:08] Jeffery Wang: Hello and welcome to the podcast, 10 Lessons Learned. The podcast that makes the world a little wiser lesson by lesson. We uncover wisdom for career, business, and life to an international audience of rising leaders. In other words, you’ll find valuable insights that you can’t find in a textbook because it took us years to learn the stuff.
[00:00:27] Jeffery Wang: My name is Jeffery Wang, the founder of Professional Development Forum and your host.
[00:00:32] Jeffery Wang: Today we’re joined by Dale Stevens. Dale Stevens is an actress from London who discovered her passion for acting from a very young age. Her journey took her from London to Sydney, to New Zealand, and now back to Melbourne as she pursued her love of the craft.
[00:00:48] Jeffery Wang: One of the pivotal moments in Dale’s career was landing a role in Mission Impossible, where she portrayed an assassin in front of famous U. S. actors. This experience taught her that her best work happened when she was most afraid, which led her to make friends with her nerves. Dale founded playwright to teach others to use acting techniques to navigate their way through life intentionally.
[00:01:12] Jeffery Wang: Over the past 11 years, Dale has worked with lawyers, accountants, governments, entrepreneurs, telcos, and budding speakers. It turns out that there are ways of behaving that are common to us all, as Dale says. Human behaviour drives economics. Welcome! Dale.
[00:01:29] Dale Stevens: Thank you so much, Jeffery. I’m delighted to be here with you.
[00:01:32] Jeffery Wang: Well, I’m very excited to have a famous actress with us for the show. So, tell me what was it, what was it like working with Tom Cruise? Ah, yes. A common misconception. It was a Mission Impossible, the series, the real version. Oh, the real, the real Mission Impossible. This is the one we grew up watching with the match and the, you know, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, yeah, that one.
[00:01:58] Dale Stevens: Yes. Yeah.
[00:01:59] Dale Stevens: So, it was, it was an extraordinary experience, but yeah, with the nerves thing, I was really absolutely terrified, mainly when I was doing a scene by myself, I was working with the other actors. you just work off their energy, but I was doing this scene. So, I don’t know why I was so scared. I was sitting in a hotel room by myself wearing a red leotard with a gun planting a bomb, what could go wrong, right? A lot. And when I was watching it back with the other cast members, as my scene was coming up, I was sitting there terrified that it would be awful. And here I was in front of them, but it went brilliantly and that’s because of technique.
[00:02:38] Dale Stevens: So, technique is king. Nerves don’t matter. It’s technique, technique, technique.

[00:02:45] Lesson 1: Do yourself.

[00:02:45] Jeffery Wang: Brilliant. Which I’m sure we’ll get into in the course of the interview.
[00:02:50] Jeffery Wang: So how about let’s just jump straight into your 10 lessons then. Lesson number one, do yourself.
[00:02:57] Dale Stevens: Yeah, well, it’s, amazing. I’m an actor, and I’ve created all the techniques from acting techniques yet. I really didn’t embrace the acting part. I saw. So, I’ve been trying to hide behind it and, not really mention it a lot until I’ve done this new rebranding with this friend of mine. And then now I’m just like really embracing it and people get me more and they get what I do more because I go with what’s so different about me.
[00:03:25] Dale Stevens: And so often people, I mean, you look at consultants, they just all look the same and they don’t bring. Yes. Once. special about them. All our accounts look the same. Lawyers look the same. IT people look the same. Everyone looks the same, but if you can really embrace who you are, people love that, and they remember you and they have a personal connection with you and want to work with you.
[00:03:49] Jeffery Wang: Now that’s very interesting because as an actress, aren’t you supposed to be playing somebody else?
[00:03:53] Dale Stevens: well, you are, but what you’re doing is actually acting isn’t about pretending. It’s actually about tapping into deep universal human truths that relate to everyone. That’s why my work works for anyone because we all, people relate to people.
[00:04:11] Dale Stevens: So, it’s actually hunting for the truth in the situation. so yeah, it’s not, it’s, and I, I’m not a big fan of fake it till you make it. I think you want to be it till you become it.
[00:04:23] Jeffery Wang: Oh, I like that. And I’m sure we’ll get into that a little bit later, but in terms of doing yourself, being, well, doing yourself though, like what’s, what’s the moment when you realize that, I suppose that, that being you is, you know, is the best way to be, cause you know, as young kids, I remember, you know, we were all very self-conscious and we always wanted to do what’s to fit in.
[00:04:43] Jeffery Wang: So, what gave you that sort of aha moment where you realized that you needed to just be you?
[00:04:51] Dale Stevens: Well, I think is that that’s what I do with the people I coach.
[00:04:55] Dale Stevens: And then, I got coached myself by this, a brilliant man. And he, and he was giving me some great ideas and some strategies. And he said, you know, you have to do this first. You have to lead the way. And I was like, what? No, I just help other people do it. And he said, no, you have to do it. And that really put the pressure on me. And I thought if I can’t speak, to crowds, if I can’t be who I really am, then how am I supposed to get other people to be able to do it as well?

[00:05:25] Lesson 2: Don’t try to do better, do different.

[00:05:25] Jeffery Wang: Good stuff. All right. Well, lesson number two, and I think it’s somewhat related to lesson number one. Don’t try to do better, do different.
[00:05:32] Dale Stevens: Yeah, look, I think this is, critical part. The thing is, I was a dancer before I was an actor, and I love training. I really, really love training, but especially with public speaking, people will say that practice makes perfect.
[00:05:46] Dale Stevens: Now that is accurate, but practice makes perfect. So, all your bad habits, you’re practicing.
[00:05:53] Dale Stevens: So, if you just keep practicing the same old thing, then you’re just going to flatline, but there’s a thing called deliberate practice and that’s when you’ve got a coach. And so, what I’ll do is I’ll give someone a little bit, something different. To add in, and then something a little bit different to add in. And so, you end up with a trajectory that you end up, you do keep doing different until you’re just supremely better. So, it’s either, it kind of goes like this, either you’re kind of flatlining because you just, and you’re ingraining, embedding those bad habits in, in what you’re doing, particularly with public speaking. It’s why sometimes people who are really established public speakers are really boring because they. They’re just ingrained in those habits, but deliberate practice means you’re doing something a bit different all the time, and that’s how you end up better.
[00:06:41] Jeffery Wang: Okay, so, so I think that you’re talking to a mindset of how you, sort of better yourself and especially in this context of public speaking, so rather than trying to sort of emulate, you know, this is an idealized version of yourself, you’re trying to, Just improve certain elements until it becomes you, does it?
[00:07:03] Dale Stevens: Well, I think you have to change what you’re doing, and really you need someone to be able to coach you who is going to be able to give you techniques. It’s like a coach for basketball you can keep dribbling in the same way or shooting the same way, and you can keep practicing that, but you’re just not going to get any better.
[00:07:21] Dale Stevens: But if you have a coach that is giving you new techniques, new ways of doing it, and then you’re, doing different things all the time, then you’re going to get better. So, I think it’s a practical thing of you keep doing the same, you’re actually not getting better. But if you have to start doing something different to improve.
[00:07:39] Jeffery Wang: Okay. So, I get where you’re coming from. So, you can’t do better until you do something different. And so, it’s part of, yeah, stepping outside of your comfort zone. Awesome.

[00:07:48] Lesson 3: The truth will set you free.

[00:07:48] Jeffery Wang: All right. Lesson number three, the truth will set you free.
[00:07:52] Dale Stevens: Wow. This is the big one. And I think we’re, challenged today because, a lot of people talk about relative truth and my truth and your truth. And what they really mean by that is my story and your story.
[00:08:04] Dale Stevens: Everyone’s got a different story. Everyone’s got a different background, different personality, which is really precious and special, but the truth is, is truth. the laws of physics, you know, there’s, They’re the truth. For me, it’s Jesus Christ and his death and resurrection. That’s what my life is based on that truth.so I think that there are specific truths. There are truths about you, about your core values, about, your core strengths. These are truths. And I think that’s, that, will set you free, but if you start playing around with the truth and, then I think you’re in big trouble.
[00:08:42] Jeffery Wang: Oh, a hundred percent. And this is one of my biggest bugbears. I hear people talk about my truth all the time and what they’re really talking about is, you know, it is my perspective. And yes, it’s important everyone has a different perspective. And, you know, and we should all try and grapple with how other people see the world.
[00:09:01] Jeffery Wang: But ultimately, there is, and I think you alluded to before, there are universal truths that people share. There is something that we all share is common to humanity. And, and the human experience. and once we embrace that and accept that, things are the way they are, you will live a much happier life, I guess, knowing that there, there is the absolute truth, that, we all orientated towards. So how did you, how did you come to learn that lesson?
[00:09:31] Dale Stevens: Well, what a thing that I think is really interesting is that. we all want to belong. And I heard the other day, someone mentioned about Australia and saying that we have the spirit of rejection in Australia and that, because we came, we’re initially convicts here and that, that something really, really, really need to overcome.
[00:09:53] Dale Stevens: And I think that that’s, plays into the whole concept of acceptance of people. But a lot of times acceptance goes into, accepting all sorts of behaviours or accepting only some people. I think that there’s a big piece around acceptance. That we could really embrace. And, and really at the end of the day, we are one species. Human beings are one species. We all belong to that. And I think that that’s something that we can base everything on.
[00:10:23] Jeffery Wang: Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, having lived in different countries and different cultures, I can, I certainly have experienced that there are shared humanity amongst us all, what fulfills us.
[00:10:34] Jeffery Wang: You know, and you talked about how people want to be accepted. They want to belong. They want that security. You talk about Maslow’s hierarchy. I mean, that’s pretty much the same across all cultures. Yeah, there is that commonality across all people. Yeah.
[00:10:48] Jeffery Wang: And I 100 percent agree with that. but, but I guess what I struggle with is, you know, being in the show business, in that sort of industry, especially nowadays, yeah, you kind of see the, the, the culture that there is, and there’s almost, a bit of a, sort of, you know, there’s almost a bit of a, counterculture that’s going on, you know, makes it rather difficult for people of faith, to work in that industry, don’t you think?
[00:11:14] Dale Stevens: Oh, very much so, very much so, that there’s, there’s no question, really, when I was acting, I was really lucky because People weren’t so vocal about all these different views. Really, if you’re an actor, you’re part of the family.
[00:11:29] Dale Stevens: I mean, I remember when I was coming back from drama school in London and, coming back to America and I met all these, actors in New York. And they were just like, you’re an actor. Great. Oh gosh, I invite you here, invite you there. And so, you were just immediately a family. Whereas these days, if your political views or your religious views or your views on virtually anything, disagree with other people, there’s just so much division and I think that where, Hollywood’s been sort of really Hollywood’s in trouble really, because it’s just specific views.
[00:12:05] Dale Stevens: Really the whole point, as I said at the beginning, is that acting is supposed to be touching deep universal human truths so that we all can relate to each other. And we get this expands your experience, your human experience. That’s the point. So, if they’re, pushing certain ideologies and stuff like that, that’s not how you do it.
[00:12:29] Dale Stevens: It’s not how you do it. And so, I think that it’s too ideological and not, really deeply human enough at the moment, I think it’s very problematic.
[00:12:39] Jeffery Wang: Yeah, and the proof is in the pudding, right? In that, a lot of the films nowadays, a lot of these, productions that’s been pushing these ideological messages that are anti human, I suppose, or not aligned with a common human experience, it’s no wonder that my kids don’t relate to Star Wars the same way I did.
[00:12:59] Jeffery Wang: Because Star Wars was a hero’s journey, ultimately, it’s about a young farm boy, overcoming his fears so that he can triumph and, rescue his friends. and ultimately, it’s not about, Luke being a man. It’s about Luke going through a hero’s journey and overcoming his fears.
[00:13:18] Jeffery Wang: whereas I think the new series of Star Wars, basically it’s, it’s a, what we call a Mary Sue, you know, an overpowered character that has, that has nothing to overcome. and as a result of that, you know, people don’t have the same, They don’t identify with the film, they don’t feel strongly about the film, and as cool as the special effects are, and lightsabres, and all that, my children just don’t have the same love of Star Wars that I remember back in the days when we were growing up, and these, these pieces of art has to speak to something deeper within us that we know, to be true. for us to really enjoy this.
[00:13:56] Dale Stevens: I think that’s so true. And also, what I’ve noticed is with all the, Marvel movies They’re so juvenile,
[00:14:04] Dale Stevens: You know, good against bad. That’s it. It’s, they’re, they’re so juvenile. I remember when my son was growing up and he was, he used to always dress up in, Ninja Turtle outfits or, Spider Man and all that. And I said to the kindergarten teacher, I said, do you reckon that’s okay? What’s going on here? Kind of thing. And she said, she researched it and she said, it’s good because when you’re small, you could, you think in big pictures, not nuance and he’s doing, he’s relating to good and evil.
[00:14:31] Dale Stevens: And when you’re five years old. Oh, a four or whatever. That’s, that’s great when you’re small, but as you grow up, you’re supposed to have discernment and nuance and, and be able to go, oh, there’s good in bad and there’s bad in good, and okay, well, how does that play out? There’s, there’s a quote, and I think I hopefully I can do it correctly.
[00:14:52] Dale Stevens: It says, There’s so much good in, the bad people and so much bad in the good people. It’s best that we don’t judge any people.
[00:15:00] Jeffery Wang: No, there’s, there’s definitely wisdom in that. and I agree with I think sadly, because we want to avoid conflict, we’ve, we’ve steered away from these difficult conversations, how often do you hear, don’t talk about religion or politics and what we have is an entire generation of people that is incapable of grappling with different, difficult issues, difficult conversations. And, as you mentioned before, people can’t even be friends with you if you don’t share the same views or police, or you voted the wrong way. I mean, that, that’s not a sign of wisdom.
[00:15:32] Jeffery Wang: That’s a sign of, being a juvenile, you can only grapple with the world in black and white. which, is, sounds like a five-year-old, right? And, and I think as we grow up, we need to develop that ability to understand the world as it is. And that’s, as you said, various shades of gray and nuance.
[00:15:50] Dale Stevens: Yeah, and there’s also a concept which I really like is this concept of holding two opposing worldviews in your head at the same time, two opposing ideas. And I think that if you can do that, it’s really a sign of maturity. And, and, actually one of the most interesting conversations I’ve ever had.
[00:16:11] Dale Stevens: So, I was, you know, full confession, I was handing out how to vote cards for the Liberal Party and I was there and there was a young guy who was handing out for the Labor Party. Now, so, I’m over 50. Female, carnivore, Christian, conservative. Okay. He’s like about 35, so he’s young, male, Muslim, vegetarian, Labor voter. And we had the best conversation. So, I started off going, well, what’s so great about Labor? And he’d go, oh, this is that. And I go, well, what about this? This is, and he said, what about that? That, that, and we had this amazing conversation. It was just how I think conversations should be because there was no, emotion in it.
[00:16:55] Dale Stevens: There was no judgment in it. We were just going, what do you think about this? Or what do you think about that? And I think that that’s, I think that’s what we’re missing. I think that we need to have many more conversations like that. We’re just throwing ideas around. I think it would be great.
[00:17:09] Jeffery Wang: You don’t know what you don’t know until you become curious right? And I think probably the key to the polarization is to become curious around the other side, why would people come to these conclusions? And I think once we understand each other, then you realize that maybe, maybe perhaps, you know, there is some value to the other side and, you can become a more informed or form a better opinion after learning all that.
[00:17:34] Jeffery Wang: and so, and this, this is actually a very interesting, I think, philosophical discussion between many of us who are hosts at, 10 Lessons Learned. One of the lessons that we’ve heard, before was that, sometimes there’s no other side to the story and I’m of the view that there always is.
[00:17:48] Jeffery Wang: And even if there isn’t, even if it’s just the 1%, you need to seek it out. Because as soon as you start dismissing the other side, that could be a road down somewhere that you really don’t want to go.
[00:18:00] Dale Stevens: we probably have more that we share in common than what divides us. And, it doesn’t always have to be team sports, we don’t always have to barrack for our colours.
[00:18:08] Jeffery Wang: A lot of the times, it’s seeking that common humanity that will eventually, lead us to, I think a much better place. so that was a little bit of a diversion from our lessons, but, but you know, nevertheless, the truth will set you free.

[00:18:21] Lesson 4: You don’t know what you’re capable of

[00:18:21] Jeffery Wang: Lesson number four, you don’t know what you’re capable of.
[00:18:24] Dale Stevens: Oh, it’s so true. It’s so true. And that’s what I say with people I work with, you know, this, this one woman, she came to me, she was so nervous about speaking in front of people. She came at her in, at a rash at her own wedding. So, this woman was terrified. Yeah, she was brilliant. She was the big superannuation company doing brilliantly, head of sustainable investment.
[00:18:49] Dale Stevens: when she introduced me to her colleagues, she spoke really fast, fiddle with her hair and was, just awful. But then I worked with her and then she nailed this international industry panel, got quoted in the magazine. It was her photo. She was quoted, nailed that. Then she got her company to be one of 30 companies represented at the UN.
[00:19:14] Jeffery Wang: how did you make her do it?
[00:19:15] Dale Stevens: How did I make her do it? well, I, I taught her techniques, so I taught her posture so that her posture wasn’t working against her. I got her voice to be powerful rather than weak. And I gave her a structure for the panel. So that she could stay on track. We, I crafted her opening, well, I help when, when I craft people’s speeches, I actually take their words, I find out what they’re saying and then, use them. So, her opening line for the panel was, because I like them to talk about the philosophy. So, she started off saying at First State Super, our philosophy is all around members first.
[00:19:51] Dale Stevens: We’re investing 90 billion worth of their money, and it’s important that we do it sustainably. Pretty good opening.
[00:19:58] Jeffery Wang: There you go. Yeah. Right. And, and that gave her the confidence to go and tackle something that she was petrified of.
[00:20:05] Dale Stevens: Yeah. So, we had the opening, I gave her the structure and she stayed to that, but it’s also with the body language. I gave her resilient body language. I got a voice happening and then, the structure. And she just. Yeah. Yeah. it’s just now that she was interviewed and did a TV, not a video interview. She nailed that just, she found her, she found her voice and her way of being a professional way of being that was, Consistent with obviously how she had performed her job over these years. But she took that, that confidence and that ability into speaking on video, into speaking on a panel and into speaking in regard to the UN.
[00:20:48] Jeffery Wang: And, and so that would have elevated her, to even higher, higher heights, I guess. yeah. So well done. Well, done.

[00:20:54] Lesson 5: Life’s a marathon, not a sprint

[00:20:54] Jeffery Wang: Lesson number five, life’s a marathon, not a sprint.
[00:20:57] Dale Stevens: yeah, I’m a natural sprinter because, being an actor, you’re either on set. And so, you’re just, hanging around a lot and then you’ve got to be on set and switched on. In theatre, you’re just like, you on for two hours in the day and that, that’s it.
[00:21:11] Dale Stevens: but yeah, I had to learn to pace myself. And I think it’s actually a series of marathons because you start out in your project or something and it’s all great and it’s near the end when it’s really hurting, and the lactic acid is building up where you want to give up. and that’s when You push through and the great things happen, but that’s where a lot of people give up.
[00:21:32] Jeffery Wang: Right. So, but, but I guess, what, what’s your secret for pushing through? Is it a case of just becoming more mentally tough and, just push yourself through, or is there, like a greater purpose that you’ve got to, aspire to something that intrinsically motivate you?
[00:21:49] Dale Stevens: I think you have to be intrinsically motivated. No question. Extrinsically. Extrinsic, motivation is never going to work really. so, I think partly it’s, it is, it’s having that, the end, end in mind and
[00:22:00] Dale Stevens: being a bit of a dog with a bone. But the other thing is realizing that life is a mind game with yourself. So, whatever it takes, you know, wake up at four 30 in the morning or stay up to two o’clock in the night or when you need to, know yourself so that you actually, and pace yourself. I think it’s the pacing is Really and know where you’re at along the project. So, okay, as it gets near the end, it’s going to get harder and harder and harder. So, awareness of where you’re at and knowing who you are, I think is really important too.
[00:22:34] Jeffery Wang: Oh, indeed. And no doubt it’s tough, right? I’ve never done a marathon, but a friend of mine has, and, they, they speak about how it’s only towards the end when it really plays with your mind, because you’re in so much pain, so much suffering that, you know, everything in your body is just telling you to quit.
[00:22:50] Jeffery Wang: But it’s, it’s that persistence that, that eventually gets you there. And, and it’s, it’s such a mentally tough battle. and quite frankly, it’s probably more important to be mentally tough than to be physically fit when it comes to marathons. So interesting insight.
[00:23:04] Dale Stevens: It’s so true. And in business, often before a breakthrough, you can be like that. I mean, last year I was just getting really frustrated with what I was doing. And I knew that there were aspects of my business. not my actual work, but the business side that really weren’t working.
[00:23:19] Dale Stevens: And I was really frustrated, and it was driving me nuts. And I could probably feel that lactic acid kicking in. And, but that drove me to, get this new branding and everything. So that, I mean, if I hadn’t been so frustrated and been driven, then, I wouldn’t have had the breakthrough with the branding and everything. So, it’s a series of cycles of that sort of thing, but you’ve got to go, okay, this is lactic acid, this is not like, well, maybe I should go and do something else.
[00:23:47] Jeffery Wang: So, life is a marathon, not a sprint is also about not giving up after, just a short time and don’t expect to be an overnight success, because anything that’s worth doing you know, you have to, you have to put in a lot of effort. So, there you go.

[00:24:03] Lesson 6: All the world’s a stage

[00:24:03] Jeffery Wang: Lesson number six, all the world’s a stage. I can really sense an acting theme around this all, all the lessons.
[00:24:11] Dale Stevens: Yeah, well, the thing is we’re always acting. And what I’m always saying is that most people act unconsciously, just reacting to their present surroundings or their past experiences or their limiting beliefs in the same old patterns. and that’s why with my programs Playwright, it’s about acting consciously because you can actually create your own character. You can, create what you’re doing, where you’re going, the whole thing. Once you start getting conscious, and intentional with what you’re doing. And I think a lot of, professional development is based around this area.
[00:24:49] Dale Stevens: You know, conscious with your timing, you’re conscious who’s around you. I mean, I think playwright takes it just a bit more into your physical self, your body language, your voice, your intentions in every. interaction with people, but yeah, we’re always active and we’re always playing roles, but sometimes we’re playing roles that we don’t really want to play.
[00:25:11] Dale Stevens: You know, you don’t really want to be playing, the victim. You pretty much don’t want to be playing the victim. That’s a loser role. You know, I mean, it doesn’t mean that you can’t share hardships with people, But maybe you’re playing the role of a, supportive colleague or something like that, or a, a, even a trusted advisor can share things when things are tough, because sometimes you sharing those tough things can be helpful for your clients. So, it’s not that you don’t ever share things that are difficult, but you don’t want to be playing a victim.
[00:25:42] Jeffery Wang: No, I understand. yeah. So, what I’d take from that is, you approach your life, and I can kind of. Draw inspiration from a conversation I had with, a cultural expert, right? So certain cultures, their life is acting.
[00:25:55] Jeffery Wang: It’s all acted out. In fact, it’s probably, I’m thinking more Italians or, or Greeks, or even South Americans, you know, people who have a very expressive culture where, you don’t just live your life you act it out, everything’s a drama, they spoke about this, experience where they go into a bread shop in France and never get served, everyone else sort of pushes in, in front of them because, she was from a much more reserved culture in Ireland.
[00:26:19] Jeffery Wang: but all she had to do; she will figure it out. Then she has to just march in there and. Basically put the bag down and say, I’m here in Italian or whatever language she was in. And when that happens, then she got served. And so, it’s really interesting how your environment does react to how you act.
[00:26:37] Jeffery Wang: And I really liked the word you said, being intentional about it. Because yes, whatever we’re doing day to day, we are always playing a role. and being intentional about that make, gives us that success. But also, to pick you up on your point about not playing the victim, because victim is a role.
[00:26:55] Jeffery Wang: And what you choose to play does become your reality. And when you choose to play a victim, guess how the world is going to react to you. Now I understand completely when you say, sharing your hardships, and opening up on that does help, with being authentic, you know, being honest.
[00:27:14] Jeffery Wang: maybe you can clarify this for me. How do you, be authentic without being a victim.
[00:27:19] Dale Stevens: I suppose it’s, what do you want the outcome to be? That if you’re fishing for, someone to comfort you or someone to feel sorry for you, probably someone to feel sorry for you, then, then you’re probably down the victim line. But if you’re doing it to, to share something, to get closer to that person, if you’re doing it from an education point of view, that you’re trying to share something that would be helpful for them. Then it’s going, if your intention, everything’s about your intention, if your intention is to get a stronger, relationship with that person, then rather than them feel, fulfill your need of feeling comforted, then, chances are that you’re not going to be in the victim role. You’re actually, and it’s, I think it’s often, you’re focused on the other person and on the relationship.
[00:28:08] Jeffery Wang: I think you nailed it. You know, if it’s about yourself and yeah, that’s when you’ll turn into a victim. And if it’s about helping others, then yeah, yeah, there you go.

[00:28:17] Lesson 7: Other people don’t know what you know.

[00:28:17] Jeffery Wang: All right. Lesson number seven, other people don’t know what you know.
[00:28:20] Dale Stevens: Yeah. Ah, yes. So, I’m a firm believer that this is the biggest barrier to communication is that it’s so hard for us. To think, to not realize that other people don’t know what we know. So, I mean, especially if you’re, speaking to someone who has similar background or similar knowledge and experience to you, and you think, oh, they know everything I know.
[00:28:45] Dale Stevens: And then you sort of start from there and. And kind of go to a higher level, whereas really you almost can’t be too basic when you’re speaking. And there’s a, a beautiful concept, which says when you’re speaking to an audience to never underestimate their intelligence, but never overestimate their knowledge.
[00:29:09] Dale Stevens: And I think that that’s so beautiful as you can be real, you just don’t treat them like idiots, but you can be really basic. I’ve worked with lawyers where, and I’ve said, you know, what did you get most out of with work with me? And they said the most basic things I do just about body language and just about keeping their chest up and the power pose and their body language.
[00:29:28] Dale Stevens: That is the most basic thing that I work with people. and that’s what they love the most. So don’t assume that, that people pretty much know, know anything about it. I think there’s Three, groups of people in any room. people who know nothing about what you’re talking about. Okay. It’s something new, people who know a little bit about it. And so, they can be reminded. And the other is people, if they know masses about it, they can look deeper, be encouraged to look deeper at it. So, you never have to worry about, how much anyone knows.
[00:30:00] Jeffery Wang: And that’s very important.
[00:30:02] Jeffery Wang: And I myself have fallen victim to this. I assume that everyone knows everything I know and anything I know is probably, general knowledge that everybody already know. and, and quite often than not, I find myself quiet, blown away by, things that I thought would be basic. And yet, you know, I, you know, and, and, and an interesting test to do is this, and you might consider yourself, an expert in say acting in the world of acting, but how often do you find things that you think you ought to have known and yet you know nothing about? And that’s what I find myself in that, the, even as, as someone who’s a proficient in the field or, or maybe even an expert, there’s always stuff that you can learn.
[00:30:44] Jeffery Wang: Yeah. But at the same time, what I really like about what you said, never underestimate the audience intelligence, is that you’re not condescending in how you put that across, I mean, yes, you’re there to share your knowledge, but you’re not there to lecture them, you’re there to, to ensure that they need to know something And you want to pass that knowledge on, and I reflect on the recent experience where I was, sharing, you know, a piece of, or essentially about how to communicate effectively, in what I believe is some pretty basic techniques.
[00:31:14] Jeffery Wang: And I was just blown away by how many people that came up later and thanked me for sharing something which I thought everybody should, know.
[00:31:22] Dale Stevens: Yeah. Yeah, that’s right. And look, even if, even if you’re, talking about the exact same technique, you’re doing it from your perspective, which is different already.
[00:31:31] Dale Stevens: So, you just never have to be worried that, that what you’re saying is not brand new or whatever. And my clients don’t really like it when I say it, but I say, I want you to imagine you’re talking to an eight-year-old child. and if you’re doing that, then you’re probably doing it right. right.
[00:31:49] Jeffery Wang: indeed. And it’s not because they’re stupid. It’s because you want that clarity in your communication and when you can simplify something, that simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, right? Knowing how to communicate something to an eight-year-old requires you to have such a deep understanding of the subject matter and be so clear in how you express it.
[00:32:10] Jeffery Wang: in order to be able to do that. So, I actually think that that in itself is a very essential skill, to have. So, yeah, so that, that’s something that I’m very, very, a big fan of. So other people don’t know what you know. I like that lesson.

[00:32:23] Lesson 8: Your body language tells you who you are.

[00:32:23] Dale Stevens: And on that theme of communications, lesson number eight, your body language tells you who you are.
[00:32:29] Dale Stevens: Ah, yes. Most people understand that, you know, your body language communicates to other people and that is massively important. There’s no question about that. But what’s so interesting is it actually.
[00:32:43] Dale Stevens: The body language talks to you as well. And so if you’re, I mean, most times we’re a bit slumped and if we slump a bit further, then our brain can go into that fight, flight, freeze, we want to run away or we want to brace, we want to fight it out or we just rabbit in the headlights. And so, our body language is telling our brain. How things are going, cause your brain is in the dark. And so. just by, lifting up your chest, just by thinking taller and calmer, just by grounding your feet, you telling your brain that you are. resilient, that you are in control, that nothing’s bothered going to bother you. Also, I’ve got this technique, which is very unusual, which is about, an acting technique about animal characteristics. And so that’s all around, like a swan, which is elegant, poised, gliding. So, if you see yourself as a swan, then you will start acting in a cool, calm, collected way. then there’s the horse, strong, powerful, confident, or you can be the. Dog friendly, easy-going, playful, which is probably my natural personality. I have to calm that for business.
[00:33:54] Dale Stevens: And then it’s the cat, which is kind of unpredictable and aloof. And so, you can use these animal characteristics to be more versatile in situations. But then again, if you’re being, if your body is actually being versatile, then you see yourself as an adaptable, versatile person who can absolutely handle anything.
[00:34:18] Jeffery Wang: Yeah. And the reality is that your, your surroundings react to you too. So, it’s almost a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy when you go out there and behave in a certain way, that’s reflected back to you exactly that. And, then it probably gets into a, a positive feedback loop and all of a sudden next thing you know you’ve got all the confidence in the world.
[00:34:38] Jeffery Wang: So great, advice and I’ll also relate that to watching my, kids, playing basketball, in the game, body language, you can really tell the morale of the team, you speak about that, but the reality is that you can tell if they’re already beaten by the body language.
[00:34:54] Jeffery Wang: And quite often than not, the game’s outcome’s not determined until, the final buzzer sounds, but however, you can give up long before that, if you send the wrong message to yourself and also to your opponents, so. Definitely a very important lesson there.

[00:35:10] Lesson 9: Human Behaviour drives Economics.

[00:35:10] Jeffery Wang: Uh, lesson number nine.
[00:35:12] Jeffery Wang: Now you mentioned this before, human behaviour drives economics. This sounds like something, this is actually quite unique, and I must admit, I don’t, don’t really know what, what you mean by this.
[00:35:22] Dale Stevens: Okay.
[00:35:23] Dale Stevens: So how you show up, everything that you do and how you do it, is what drives all your results. So, economics is not just financial economics is in your relationships, in your, the mastery of techniques, absolutely all the results in your life. So, economics encompasses all that is all driven by your behaviour. It’s driven by how you use your body, how you use your voice, how you create relationships, how you manage those relationships, everything you do and how you do it is what drives the results.
[00:35:59] Jeffery Wang: Okay. That makes perfect sense to me as a sales, representative. that’s a hundred percent it, you know, a lot of it essentially. I mean, yes, there’s products, there’s price, but ultimately people buy from people. And, how they judge your offering. you know, the, the sales rep has a massive influence on how you represent, your organization.
[00:36:22] Jeffery Wang: So yeah, a hundred percent. I’m, I’m with you there.

[00:36:25] Lesson 10: Choose Your Avatar

[00:36:25] Jeffery Wang: that brings us to our final lesson, lesson number 10. And this sounds like a reference to a computer game. Choose your avatar.
[00:36:34] Dale Stevens: Yes. Well, it’s very interesting. the story of Meryl Streep because Meryl Streep when she was in high school, she had mousey brown hair. She was very nerd, had glasses and braces, read a lot, hung out with her nerdy kids and Whatever reason she decided that she’d like to be the homecoming queen. And she had a very different vision for her life than the way it was going. And so, she decided to get rid of her glasses, to have her braces taken off.
[00:37:03] Dale Stevens: She bleached her hair with lemon, and she played the role of the popular girl. And she even took on certain characteristics that popular girls were doing, and she became the homecoming queen. She dated the football star, and she created a character for herself, in a very short period of time and became who she wanted to be.
[00:37:27] Dale Stevens: And I just believe that we can all do that. because I think that as we grow up, we are formed in relation to our surroundings. And how to get those relationships to work for us and all that. And then as we become adults, I think that we can really choose every aspect of our character to be aligned.
[00:37:50] Dale Stevens: To be authentic to me is being aligned so that your body language, your voice, what you say, how you say it, where you go, what you do, who you, communicate with, who you hang around with, everything is all aligned. And if you start choosing those things, then you become truly authentic and truly you.
[00:38:11] Jeffery Wang: Okay. So, I think I’ll relate that back to when you’re saying becoming intentional about it. But I guess I’ll just play the devil’s advocate here. I it sounds rather manipulative, doesn’t it? I mean, the thing is, it’s an age old, people say that they fake it till you make it, you know, and I know you’re not, you mentioned before, you’re not a fan of that.
[00:38:31] Jeffery Wang: So how do you reinvent yourself, without seemingly just manipulating, how do you remain authentic to who you are, and yet somehow. just change the way you project.
[00:38:42] Dale Stevens: I think life is a mind game with yourself. And, and so I think you just choose and, but it’s like a child learning to walk, you know, you want to walk. And so, you stumble, and you just try stuff on for size. You know, you just speak in a certain way, act in a certain way and go, well, is that really me? Do I want to be that? And you just, by trial and error. And, and also, as you said before, it’s a loop with other people. If you like the way they’re responding to you, I had an experience with, John Voigt, the actor, the Academy Award winning actor, brilliant actor, worked with him in New Zealand.
[00:39:17] Dale Stevens: Unbelievable experience. And we worked, we were working on this scene, we’re doing lines together. And during it, he said to me, oh, you should do comedy. And I thought, Oh, yeah. What? I should do comedy? You shouldn’t be saying that. You should be saying I should be doing Shakespeare, and you should be taking me back to America so I could do Shakespeare with you and Al Pacino.
[00:39:37] Dale Stevens: What do you mean I should do comedy? And I was just really thrown by it. And then I thought, well, is that how I’m coming across? Am I just so light? Am I, I mean, I love to make people laugh. I adore it, but I was doing that all the time. And I just thought, well, you know, in my private life, that’s fine.
[00:39:56] Dale Stevens: But professionally, I don’t want to be someone who is just, who is funny.
[00:40:00] Dale Stevens: I mean, I’m not a standup comedian. I don’t, I don’t want people to just laugh all the time because you can’t have two that, that you’ve really taken seriously. So, I think that you can watch how people respond to you. And I mean, maybe if I wanted to be that, if I wanted to do comedy or I wanted everyone to laugh at me all the time, that’s what I wanted.
[00:40:19] Dale Stevens: I could have embraced that more. So, I think it’s just this constant experiment. where you’re watching how people respond to you. and if you don’t like it, change something about you, don’t try and change them.
[00:40:32] Jeffery Wang: Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. So, so what you’re saying is that it’s basically just a part of growing up, you know, it’s a process where you grow into it.
[00:40:41] Jeffery Wang: So, being intentional about that choice allows you to essentially grow as a person and being intentional also allows you to grow in the direction that you ultimately want to head in life. So that is, that is wisdom indeed. So, it’s not necessarily, we don’t think of it as a manipulative, you’re pretending to be somebody who you’re not, but you’re actually growing into somebody who you want to become.
[00:41:06] Jeffery Wang: And I think that’s a much better way to look at it.
[00:41:08] Jeffery Wang: All right. Well, thank you for that. So that’s a, that’s the last of the 10 lessons. And as, as we do as a tradition here at 10 lessons, we love to throw our guests a curveball. And, and what we do is we ask them, what have you unlearned in your life? So, something that you believe to be ironclad truth when you’re starting out in life, but then later learn that it’s just complete bollocks.
[00:41:31] Dale Stevens: Hmm. I think goal setting.
[00:41:34] Jeffery Wang: Goal setting. Goal setting is a waste of time or is it just, just not working?
[00:41:39] Dale Stevens: I know I I’ve tried it so many times and, yeah, look, I think it does work for some people. It definitely works for Arnold Schwarzenegger. He’s, you know, he’s like nailed the goal setting, like every year, apparently, he set goals, and he achieved them all. So, if that’s your personality and it works for you, fantastic. But if you’re an artistic spirit like me, it I’m, I’m so driven to get better. I’m so driven to, kind of excel in business. I’m driven to create phenomenal results for my, the people I work with. I’m driven to do all these things. I like creating great habits and, great ways of working so that, that the process drives me.
[00:42:25] Dale Stevens: I love training. I love the process. I love getting better. So, the goals kind of. just, yeah, don’t really work for me.
[00:42:34] Jeffery Wang: So why would you suggest just don’t set goals?
[00:42:37] Dale Stevens: Well, I don’t know. I probably should set more goals, but, but I think know yourself. and everything comes down to know yourself and create your own life.
[00:42:46] Dale Stevens: Either life creates you or you create your life. That’s it.
[00:42:50] Jeffery Wang: So, so long as you’re intentional about creating that life, you don’t need to stick to hard goals and just sort of feel bad about not achieving it. All right. Well, that’s a, that’s a definitely a piece of wisdom there as well.
[00:43:00] Jeffery Wang: So, thank you very much. It’s been the most pleasurable, talking to you, you know, always fun to, to talk to a creative, you know, as, as I’ve always had an interest in the, in the performing arts since, since my uni days. It’s, it’s, you know, it was something that I, I, I learned from a very young age that has a massive impact on what you could do with your life.
[00:43:21] Jeffery Wang: So, thanks for sharing all of that. And thank you for being on the show, Dale.
[00:43:25] Dale Stevens: Oh, it’s been such a pleasure. I love the way you go deep into topics rather than just float on the top. So, thank you.
[00:43:33] Jeffery Wang: Thanks. And we will finish on that note.
[00:43:35] Jeffery Wang: You’ve been listening to 10 Lessons Learned, the podcast that makes the world a little wiser, lesson by lesson. We’re joined today by our special guest, Dale Stevens. This episode is produced by Robert Hossary and sponsored by the Professional Development Forum. Don’t forget to leave us a review or comment.
[00:43:52] Jeffery Wang: You can even email us at podcasts@10lessonslearned.com. That’s podcast at number 1 0 lessonslearned. com. Go ahead and hit that subscribe button so that you don’t miss an episode of the only podcast that makes the world a little wiser, lesson by lesson. Thanks for tuning in and stay safe, everyone.

 This episode is produced by Robert Hossary. Sponsored as always by Professional Development Forum. You can find the www.professionaldevelopmentforum.org you’ve heard from us we’d like to hear from you. Email us it’s podcast@10lessonslearned.com. Remember, this is the podcast the only podcast. That’s makes the world wiser lesson by lesson.

Share:

Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn

Related Posts

Barnaby Howarth

Barnaby Howarth – Sometimes Stuff Just Works Out For You

Join us for an insightful conversation with Barnaby Howarth, whose journey from the Australian Football League to becoming a beacon of resilience and hope is both inspiring and instructive. Tune in as Barnaby shares valuable life and career lessons on overcoming adversity and finding strength in vulnerability. Hosted by Robert Hossary

Read More »
Dale Stevens

Dale Stevens – You don’t know what you’re capable of.

Facing your fears, embracing change, and learning to ‘do you’ – Dale Stevens has done it all and is here to share her incredible journey and the lessons learned along the way. From landing a role in Mission Impossible to founding Playright, Dale’s story is a testament to the power of persistence and authenticity. Join us for a deep dive into the lessons that have shaped her career and life. Hosted by Jeffery Wang

Read More »
Melissa Hahn

Melissa Hahn – There are no wasted experiences.

Explore the journey of fostering effective intercultural relations with intercultural professional Melissa Hahn, emphasizing building genuine relationships over cultural differences. Learn valuable lessons on adaptability, personal growth, and embracing cultural identities. Delve into the significance of self-care and the art of maintaining authenticity in various cultural contexts. Hosted by Siebe Van Der Zee

Read More »
Barnaby Howarth

Barnaby Howarth – Sometimes Stuff Just Works Out For You

Join us for an insightful conversation with Barnaby Howarth, whose journey from the Australian Football League to becoming a beacon of resilience and hope is both inspiring and instructive. Tune in as Barnaby shares valuable life and career lessons on overcoming adversity and finding strength in vulnerability. Hosted by Robert Hossary

Read More »
Dale Stevens

Dale Stevens – You don’t know what you’re capable of.

Facing your fears, embracing change, and learning to ‘do you’ – Dale Stevens has done it all and is here to share her incredible journey and the lessons learned along the way. From landing a role in Mission Impossible to founding Playright, Dale’s story is a testament to the power of persistence and authenticity. Join us for a deep dive into the lessons that have shaped her career and life. Hosted by Jeffery Wang

Read More »