Samir Domah- You Can Learn As Much From The Little Guys As The Big Guys

Robert Hossary: Hello and welcome to 10 Lessons Learned, where we talk to interesting people from all over the world to dispense their wisdom for your career, business, and life in order to make the world a little wiser. Lesson by lesson. My name is Robert Hossary, and I’m your host for this episode.
Today’s guest all the way from the UK is Samir Dormer. Samir has spent a lot of time in corporate life. He is a currently a trainer. But you know what, let Samir tell us all about that. Samir. Welcome to the show. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself please?
Samir Domah: Thank you, Robert. hi everyone. I’m er, I’ve had a, I’ve been blessed to have a very nice, career in data and, say FMCG, but you know, if you’ve, your local supermarket, any product on the shelf, I probably touched it in [00:01:00] some capacity or played a role in it being there. and now, I run my own data and insight consultancy.
and alongside that, after a few lessons that I’ve learned in my career, I’m trying to coach others to, not make the same mistakes I have. So, as part of, my coaching, my book, and a few other little bits, I try to live my life the best I can and help others along the way as well.
Robert Hossary: And you can understand why we’ve asked Samir to be a guest on our show because that is pretty much the mission of 10 lessons. We want to make sure that everybody has an opportunity to live their best life and learn from our mistakes. and I believe, Samir, this is what you are doing. You are spreading your wisdom to the people you coach.
Samir Domah: Absolutely. As I’ve, I’ve had the, I say it this way, I’ve had the pleasure of making many mistakes in my career. if you don’t stop and fail, it’s a learning or there’s no such thing as failure. There’s a learning. So, for me, absolutely if I can go back and help someone else not [00:02:00] fall down the, the little rabbit holes that I did, then, as it’s a job well done.
Robert Hossary: Absolutely correct. This is what, this is what? All of us here on 10 lessons, we all have the same mission. This is our passion.
So, before we start on your lessons, let me ask you this question. If you had the opportunity, what would you tell your 20-year-old self?
Samir Domah: That What feels like pressure at the moment. will turn around in a few years and laugh at that problem and go, I did that absolutely no trouble. So then use that to go look, don’t stress about things because it’s all going to work out. It just feel, it’s all part of the growth.
Robert Hossary: It is all part of the growth and isn’t it amazing how in our youth we stress about the most insignificant things? and I, I, I’ve told this to many people I’ve worked with. You’ve been through worse. You’ve survived. You’ll survive this.
Samir Domah: You’ve survived a hundred [00:03:00] percent of your worst days or a hundred percent of your bad days, I think is the, the Instagram quote that I always, I always keep seeing. So, and that is absolutely true.
yeah, I’ve lost many a night’s sleep that I wish I could get back,
Robert Hossary: Oh.
Samir Domah: was all going to work out.

Lesson 1: Make It Count

Robert Hossary: Don’t, haven’t. We all, haven’t we all? Alright, well look, let’s get started on your first lesson. lesson number one, make it count. I like that. because that, that, that’s a mantra that I use. But what do you mean by make it count?
Samir Domah: So, as part of writing my book in the opening line of my book, or my chapter in my book is, your Chances of Being Born a one in 400 Quadrillion, which, for those of you who don’t know what a quadrillion is, that’s 400 followed by 18 zeros. That’s a, that’s a lot of zeroes. and that is just the probability of you taking your first breath, and, and making it out for, get, getting to 40, 50, 60, anything [00:04:00] else, that doesn’t take in the probability of your parents being born or them meeting each other, your grandparents, and all the way there.
So, it’s actually almost pretty hard to put a, a real true number on, on what it is to be born. And I just think when you have such luck in a way to, to be on this earth that we have a, a duty to make sure live it the best we can, and that you take every chance and every opportunity. And don’t want to die one day and be in front of my maker and go, oh, do you know what, I watched Netflix for the 40 years or the 50 years that you gave me. I did everything I could. And more importantly, the, you know. I, I leave the world in a better place than when I came into it. Then, I
Robert Hossary: It
Samir Domah: super important.
Robert Hossary: isn’t that. That that is probably the most important thing for a lot of human beings, but they don’t understand it. Leave the world a little better than you found [00:05:00] it, and that could just mean smiling at someone. As you’re walking past them on the street. but kindness, show kindness, leave the world better.
I, I agree with you, Samir. This is something that I only learned later in life. So, you know, I wished I’d learned that lesson when I was younger, but that would’ve helped me a lot, and it would’ve left the world a little better back in those days than I had found it. But hey, I’m making up for it now.
Samir Domah: and that’s the thing as well, right? It’s, it’s the book largely an Atomic Habits, but it was Dave Brailsford, British Cycling who came up with the aggregation of marginal gains. Oh, if you don’t, ha, I’m not saying people shouldn’t try being a hundred percent good. Absolutely should, but you know, little one percent by everyone. Makes a big difference to the whole world. So, you know, no one’s saying you should go and buy free coffees every day for 10 [00:06:00] people, or, you know, go, up weeds in all your neighbour’s gardens.
But just doing that one little bit perpetuates not only your own 1%, but everyone else to do 1%. and, you know, you can kind of feel, you can turn this juggernaut around pretty, pretty quickly.
Robert Hossary: Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and I don’t want to dwell on this as much as you and I can talk about this forever, but what I’ve observed is that kindness seems to be a mantra for the younger generation. the boomers, the Gen Xers, we’ve forgotten. We’ve forgotten. That kindness is what fuels the world.
And I think in, this is just me ranting now, but I think what is being seen around the world now is the younger generation are just saying, you don’t have to be nasty. You don’t have to be an asshole. Let’s all be nice to each other. [00:07:00] It, it fills me with hope. That’s all I can say. It fills me with hope.

Lesson 2: Your Value Isn’t Define by The Position You Are In Now

Samir Domah: alright, let’s move on to lesson number two. Your value isn’t defined by the position you are in now. Talk to me about that.
So, this one for me, it, it comes from a great lesson, as part of my, sort of one of my last sort of corporate roles. I was sat in a room with a CEO who spoke to me in third person. And it was very shouty and condescending and despite not being, not having understood the information on the screen in a room full of people chose to tear me down and I was like, that doesn’t feel great, and I don’t feel valued. And amazingly, almost 12 months on to, to the day. I was sat in a different room, with one of my clients, and to hear someone go, do you know what? We can’t have this conversation without Samir [00:08:00] being there because he’s world class at what he does. And that phrase, in that moment, the person that said it probably made it as a remark, but that is one of the most standout moments for me in the last 10 years.
Not because
I, I pride myself on being world class is that my value was different. I was the same person, the same skillset they had 12 months ago. in someone else’s eyes, I was world class. So sometimes, you know, when you don’t feel good, I’m not, you know, trying to get everyone to quit their jobs and go do other things right now and not work on themselves.
Please don’t take that as a lesson. But absolutely understand if you’re not feeling great in a, in a role or in a business, it’s not necessarily always a reflection on you. It can sometimes just be, you need to be in a different room. You need to be in a different house, and all of a sudden, the same things that make you bad in one place can [00:09:00] make you incredible somewhere else.
And we talk just to, you know, I guess to go back a lesson in a way. Good propagates good. Normally, if you’re in a house where you feel good, you can then start to feel even better and do some greater things. So, that’s what I meant by, by that one.
Robert Hossary: Yeah, well, I couldn’t agree more as far as you not define, and once again, it took me a long time to learn this. I defined myself by my position, grandiose titled Big Offices, whatever. I, I would chase it, but that wasn’t who I was. And it took a long time to learn that you know, like I’ve had experiences like you’ve had.
With, puffed up peacocks, thumping desks saying, you know, I am the, I don’t really care what you are. You know, you’re a human being. I’m a human being. We’re both being paid to do a job, so shut the fuck up, basically. you know, it doesn’t take much to show respect. It [00:10:00] doesn’t take much to show appreciation.
For someone who works with you. so, I hear you and you are not defined by your position. I, I, I agree with that. I mean, that is a, a very, very powerful lesson, but not too many people learn it early enough. You know, and I’ll repeat it. Your value is not defined by the position you are in now.
Samir Domah: I think that’s absolutely, and I think the one thing I’d add to that is, and you touched on it, is a lot of people realize it later on because you have a moment. We all have a moment in our lives where we go, ah, actually all that noise isn’t what is important to me. My values actually lie here. So, if I had to.
another thing I’d probably say to my 20-year-old self is figure out the things that matter to you as a
Robert Hossary: Yeah,
Samir Domah: now and let that be your sat nav [00:11:00] satellite navigation to, to where you want to land, because everything else is just noise on the way otherwise.
Robert Hossary: Absolutely. I, I’m going to share a little anecdote whether it makes the cut or not doesn’t matter, but I’m going to share a little anecdote.
Samir Domah: yeah.
Robert Hossary: I worked for this organization that had a very toxic person in there who created other toxic people. And that created a lot of noise. And so, with all this noise going around, you couldn’t see what was wrong with the business.
Once we got rid of the toxic person, we could see the errors being made in different areas of the business and we could focus on them and fix them. And the toxicity came from them feeling important in their position. So, It’s not only something that affects you personally and affects the people around you in a corporate environment, but it also affects the [00:12:00] business.
it, it, it creates that noise. It creates a, a totally different, culture. So, you can’t see what’s going on once you get rid of the noise. It works. So, I, I, I love this lesson.
Samir Domah: I think he, yeah, absolutely. I fully agree. I think, especially as you get higher up the hierarchy, people’s energies go down the chain quite quickly and,
Robert Hossary: Hmm.
Samir Domah: it’s never, always there. It, it adds speed bumps to the road, which, I don’t always think need to be there.

Lesson 3: Even Your Toughest Foe, Is Soft Somewhere Else

Robert Hossary: I agree. Yeah. Yep. Being a corporate guy for so long. I agree. Okay. Let’s look at lesson number three. Interesting. Lesson number three. Even your toughest foe are soft somewhere else. Tell me what you mean by that.
Samir Domah: I think it’s a, it’s almost a roll on from what we’re just talking really of all these, [00:13:00] puffy peacocks as we, as we call them, I’ve always lived by the mantra of when they go home, they’re not an asshole to their kids. Or to their mom or
Robert Hossary: You would hope you would hope.
Samir Domah: There’s probably one or two, I think might actually be, but I think generally speaking, people aren’t, and I think, sometimes it’s worth reminding yourselves that in those situations actually, finding ways of tapping into those sides really can change a relationship or change people. And where I learned this is I had a, a, a director at one of the retailers who I used to work with, shout at everyone really? Hot-headed. Really? Go for you. And then I found out that he was actually from Malta. So, I learnt how to say, Hey, how are you in Maltese? And one day I just walked past. I was like, ah kif int. And he is like, ah. [00:14:00] then he took a step back. And it changed our dynamic ever since. and ever since then he sees me. I’ve seen him years from now in, you know, loads of different conferences. I’ll be like, and he, and it’s just this little bit of banter that we have and it’s, one little moment, like that one little phrase, you know, two, two words meant something else to him somewhere else. and, and softened him completely. So, I think there’s massive bits of, sometimes it’s, I guess, contradicting what we’ve just said of kind of taking a step back from tough people, or tough personalities. it’s worth finding what softens the egg to, to lean into it, and find ways of breaking them down.
Robert Hossary: Do you know what I hear?
Because what you just said strikes a chord. What I hear is take the time. To find out about people. Take the time to figure [00:15:00] out you know, who the person is you’re interacting with, and see if there’s any common ground or if not, see if you can create common ground because you’re right there is a soft spot.
There should be a soft spot in almost everybody, and it’s up to you. To find the soft spot in those people that you want to have a working relationship with. A relationship with a romantic relationship with. I mean, what you’ve just said, Samir goes beyond corporate life. It goes into daily life every day.
You don’t know what someone’s going through, and you don’t know what you can do that will soften. The relationship between you, unless you listen, you learn, you try. This is what I heard. How, how far off the mark am I?
Samir Domah: I think it’s great because I think you’ve actually pulled together quite a few different threads that we’ve been talking about, [00:16:00] right? Because on one side I go, we talk about doing, you know, aggregation of marginal gains and your, your one good bit and being good and focus on being good. You don’t meet, hardness with hardness.
Robert Hossary: Hmm.
Samir Domah: so, you know, it absolutely leans into that lesson itself. but also, there’s, I guess a coaching principle, but the one that we work with or I work with is, the topic is not the agenda. and
Robert Hossary: Oh.
Samir Domah: I mean. Is that people often turn up going, do you know what? I’m really stressed out, or I need help with time management. And actually, what it is, it’s not time management that’s the problem. It’s you have too much on your plate. There’s something else underneath that is causing the pain that you need to unearth. And I think.
Robert Hossary: Yep.
Samir Domah: vein, right, of someone being difficult is they don’t choose to be difficult.
they’re moulded in that way. And it’s about finding what causes that, that pressure point.
Robert Hossary: Yeah, you, I, I see that. I like that. Again, something it took years to learn. one of our other hosts, Siebe, one of [00:17:00] his all-time favourite lessons is Don’t judge until you understand. And that’s, that’s pretty much what we’re talking about.
Alright, now that was great. That was really, really good.

Lesson 4: Clarity Beats Complexity

Robert Hossary: Alright, let’s move on to lesson number four. When I read this, it just spoke to me, Samir, clarity beats complexity. This is wonderful. Talk to me about that.
Samir Domah: It’s, it’s, it’s one of the best lessons I’ve learned through my career of, especially in the, in the data world. have, a desire to sometimes either boil the ocean or put everything on a slide or everything in a PowerPoint. Everything in a document. And what happens is you give it to someone to read, and they look at it and they go, I don’t understand anything you put on there. and when you think about cultures, you think about strategies where you really need everyone to buy into it. Often simplifying down something into a really clear [00:18:00] set of principles or words that people can go, ah, I remember that. or I can live by this. It, it is everything. You know, I, I’ve sat in enough meetings where people go through stuff’s line by line by line in a spreadsheet, you’ll like just to give the headlines and worry about the detail later.
Robert Hossary: Yeah. as a, an analyst for most of my career, it’s, it’s easy to go through the data. It’s easy to go through and, and point out, you know, the highs, the lows, the outliers, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But unless you can boil it down into very clear, concise points. and make it as simple as possible.
you will lose your audience. You will lose the momentum, and you will lose the, the backing of the people you’re trying to convince.
Samir Domah: Yeah, and I think it’s one of these ones as well where like, especially around the world of data, we have a [00:19:00] habit. If you’re not experience enough sometimes to go, going to tell you everything that I found in the data as opposed to telling people the thing that they need to know.
Robert Hossary: Yep.
Samir Domah: and I’ve seen it happen so many times, that, yeah, it, it can really be the difference between the same data set.
Absolutely boring someone and absolutely boring a room full of people when you present the strategy. To people leaving that room, bouncing, going, this is something I believe in. This is something I, I absolutely want to, to go for.
Robert Hossary: Well, this goes back to the point we just made a few minutes ago, which is noise.
Samir Domah: Yeah.
Robert Hossary: That the amount of data you’re going to present, the amount of information you’re going to give is noise. Cut through the noise, find out what those nuggets are that need to be addressed and focus on that.
Samir Domah: Yeah, absolutely. It’s, it, yeah, I, I’ve seen it go [00:20:00] wrong far too many times or not as exciting too many times as something should be. and there’s definitely, Especially analysts, we often make the mistakes that people can read data the same way we do. So, translate it for everyone else.
Robert Hossary: Exactly. Exactly. Okay. So, lesson number five. Now, as a, as a sales professional, this spoke to me as well.
Samir Domah: Yeah.

Lesson 5: It’s Easy To Overcomplicate Your Customer

Robert Hossary: Lesson number five, it’s easy to overcomplicate your customer, and it is, it is very, I found the most successful, sales calls I ever had is when I shut the hell up.
And let the customer talk. So, tell me, tell me about Overcomplicating customers.
Samir Domah: Yeah, I think actually this almost comes from a slightly different angle. So, as a, as a bit of a step for you, Esco in the UK have, 22 to 24 million card holding customers and their loyalty card, but they actually only bore this down to [00:21:00] five groups of people.
Robert Hossary: Hmm.
Samir Domah: in a world now where we, try to, you know, personalize everything for everyone. All the
Robert Hossary: Yep.
Samir Domah: your customers sometimes are actually much simpler than you think they are. and you know, if you’re starting a new business or you’re coming up with a great idea, don’t try and build something for everyone. because the likelihood is you’ll land with no one. make something that, that, that works for the masses, and everyone else will follow. because ultimately, you know, we, we’re all so similar a world where we concentrate on being different, that, we naturally gravitate towards other people who we, we, we share things with. So, absolutely. is that.
Robert Hossary: As evidenced by the echo chambers in social media around the world. Now, you know you, yes, the algorithms put you there, but you do tend to gravitate towards people like you. I.
Samir Domah: Yeah, absolutely. is it [00:22:00] homophily when you, you see success in others that look like you or, or sound like you? so, I think it’s a natural human behaviour really, isn’t it? To, to, to want other people, like people, as much as they come and say, I’m lonely. I’m a I’m an introvert, or
I don’t talk to people.
You, if there was a rumour, other introverts, that’s a room you’d walk into.
Robert Hossary: True. Everyone’s looking for their tribe, Samir. Everyone is looking for their own tribe.
Samir Domah: Absolutely. So, yeah, and, and it’s within that. So don’t overcomplicate things. Keep things simple.
Robert Hossary: How you give me an example of how we would keep things simple. I mean, you’ve, you’ve, you’ve discussed Tesco. Taking their 24 million cardholders and boiling them down into five groups. But how would, how would we keep it simple in our own circles?
Samir Domah: Great question. I think.
it’s. It is easy to overthink [00:23:00] things, and I think sometimes it’s worth just taking things down in their face value, of what they are. You know, all naturally do it right? Oh, so and so said this, so that means maybe they saw this and they thought this. That makes me feel like this. We are here. And sometimes your friend just saying, your dress looks rubbish, just because your dress looks rubbish.
It’s nothing else more than that. and you know, we talk about making it count. Just don’t spend time dwelling on things that that matter. I mean, if you take that example a bit further, maybe I should talk about the dresses I wear and maybe the, the shirts that I wear instead. That either matters to you enough that you’ll go and change your shirt or it doesn’t matter enough and you’re just going to keep your shirt and keep going on anyway.
So rather than spend your time in your head, other people’s opinions and thoughts and feelings, just what feels right to you.
Robert Hossary: Agreed. Absolutely. more [00:24:00] people should hear this and viewers, listeners, you’ve heard me say this in other interviews. This is a bloody important point. it’s so simple. It is so simple that it might fly over your head. So do yourself a favour, rewind. Listen to this lesson again because I can guarantee you if you can internalize this, my God, your life is going to be aa lot simpler than it has been if you are one of these people that overcomplicates things.
Thank you, Samir. That, that was wonderful.
We’re going to take a very quick break. 10 lessons will always be free to listen to, but it’s not free to make this takes our blood, sweat and tears. But you can help. You can help by leaving us a comment, leaving us a review, a positive one if you can.
Sharing this episode [00:25:00] with a friend, telling your friends about 10 lessons learned. Subscribing to this podcast on YouTube or on your favourite podcast app.
Every little bit helps and helps us get more people involved in our community and more people learning these lessons that can make their lives a little wiser. Lesson by lesson.
So enough of the commercials.

Lesson 6: Do Pre-Mortems, Not Post-Mortems

Robert Hossary: Let’s get back to our lessons today with our guest, Samir Doma from the UK. Okay, so we’re up to lesson number six. This is interesting, Samir. I’m, I’m interested to hear why you’ve put this down as a lesson. Lesson number six, do pre-mortems, not post-mortems. Talk to me about that.
Samir Domah: Yeah, it’s, I’m going to do a bit of a, A punch to my own career here and of my points later on. But we often wait for the data to make, evaluations and see whether [00:26:00] something’s worked or not. but sometimes before you push go, it’s almost just as valuable to look at something and rather than say in 12 months from now, this failed because. Be able to take a step back and go, this will fail because, and just what it allows you to do is just really look at your plans, along with a, another technique called red teaming, which is giving it to someone completely different not involved in the project to, to look at.
Robert Hossary: Yeah.
Samir Domah: and really see that the, the fail points that might happen.
And, and I think if you can do that, you know, not saying that something will be a massive success, but you might just reduce your failure rate by, you know, 50%. if you can find a way to, to look at stuff before it happens rather than evaluating after.
Robert Hossary: But even, but 50% is huge.
Samir Domah: Absolutely. if you think about some of the projects that I’ve been in involved with over the years, you’re talking about, you know, 50, 60 million pound projects and, and products that go [00:27:00] on shelf, you know. For every great Coca-Cola product you see, in the kitchen somewhere, there’s about 10 or 15 other bottles and flavours that didn’t quite make it to, to the shelf, or much in the same way.
You talk about waste rates on, on, on shelves in supermarkets of, of products that didn’t quite the cut, but someone believed that it. Or someone thought something about it. so, you know that in a world of, cost implications becoming even more, you know, big pressure points as, as part of the, the, the system.
And we see, you know, across multiple industries, ways that you can reduce that. likelihood of something to fail, is really huge. And, I guess another supermarket stat, for, for you is, 78% of new products that make it to the shelf fail within the first 12 weeks.
Robert Hossary: That’s huge.
Samir Domah: it’s massive, so it’s, a massive [00:28:00] of money. so yeah, really learn how to. Pre-Mortem
Robert Hossary: But let me, let me add to that, and again, you know, this is what I’m hearing and what I’m taking from this, and plus with my experience. So, you correct me if I’m wrong. Pre-mortems are a great idea. I, I think it’s wonderful. However, there are a lot of people that I know who would be paralysed by the analysis and do nothing.
They wait till it’s perfect. What do you say to them?
Just press GO! yeah, if you wait till you’re perfect, you’ll never, you’ll never get off the start line. Yeah.
Samir Domah: so yeah, it should totally, there’s nothing wrong with iterating as you move, as someone once said, jump from the plane and stitch the net on the way down, or stitch the parachute on the way down. it [00:29:00] is also, a, a fair analogy. just, just take the leap, and learn as you go and get the
Robert Hossary: And don’t be, don’t be afraid of failure, right? Because you will learn and then you can adjust and tweak and pivot. Once you have those lessons, once you’ve learned what is not going to work, but unless you’re actually doing it and, and you fail, you’ll never know.
Samir Domah: Yeah, absolutely. and I guess the, the point of this lesson is, reducing your likelihood to fail, but don’t think that failing.
Robert Hossary: Yep.
Samir Domah: bad thing. Failure is a learning. and I think I gave this analogy to someone else this week of, if you put, an address in a satellite navigation and along the way you take the wrong turning, you never go, oh my God, I failed to get to my destination. You just find another way to get back on the freeway or the motorway, and you carry on heading to your destination. So, that Is absolutely what people should do.

Lesson 7: You Can Learn As Much From The Little Guys As The Big Guys

Robert Hossary: That’s a beautiful analogy. I love that. I think I’ll steal it from [00:30:00] you. That’s lovely. Alright, let’s go to lesson number seven, I like this for a different reason. I’ll tell you after you explain it. Lesson number seven, you can learn as much from the little guys as you can from the big guys.
Samir Domah: Yeah, it’s, I’ve seen so many people get into, enter a market or, you know, even as, as people, we look and we go, no, the Tony Robbins of the world, that’s who I need to. On myself, on, that’s who I need to be. I need to be this peppy guy within a, a particular way in a particular energy. And I, in my early part of my career, I was told this a lot of, oh, so now, you have to be really high energy.
because I was in, you know, commercial roles. I, you know, Samir take, you know, don’t speak at the, the pace you speak at. and then I found that actually, businesses learn more at looking at. know, new startups or smaller guys who innovated and did things slightly differently and had the agility to turn [00:31:00] around and do things like their way.
and there was as much to, to gain from that, in terms of the mindset, as it was of, of following one of the bigger guys. And, you know, for myself, then I translate that to, you know, how I carried myself. I actually found that my slower pace, my calm nature. Made people feel really relaxed in the room rather than feel they were being sold to or feel that they were being pitched something all the time. And it, it made for much better conversations in, in that sense, kind of like a bit of a personality way, but yeah, absolutely. If you, you know, you’re trying to enter somewhere, look at what everyone is doing. Don’t just copy what the, the, the big boys in the market are doing.
Robert Hossary: Very true. there’s so many different ideas. There’s so many different ways of doing things that if you get stuck on one, the chances are you’re, you’re not going to be as successful [00:32:00] as you could have been had you broadened your horizon a bit and watched everybody and just cherry pick the bits that are good.
You don’t have to come up with anything new. Everything’s been invented. so why not use someone else’s idea? It’s not a big deal. but you’ve got to keep your eyes open. You’ve got to keep your mind open, and you’ve got to look everywhere. So, I, I agree with you on that. You can always learn, even if it’s how not to do something.
You can always learn from what’s already happened out there.
Samir Domah: I think there’s almost a bit of like a nine box grid in a way that goes look at good, better, best, and then look at big, medium, small. and using that as a bit of an analysis framework.
Robert Hossary: Yeah.
Samir Domah: here’s what the good big guys do, all the way down to the little bad guys and, you know, draw your lessons from there.

Lesson 8: Data is King, Humans Are Still The Queen

Robert Hossary: Fantastic. Excellent advice. I love that. Alright, [00:33:00] let’s look at lesson number eight. Data is king, but humans are still the queen. I’m confused.
Samir Domah: in a world of AI and leaning on AI to do everything and come up with everything for us. And similarly, you know, in the, the data world of supermarkets, for example, everyone always tries to lean a way of making sure the data says everything. And I’m probably going to outdo myself out of a job by what I say next, but it will always, in my opinion, need a human eye. To get to the final place, there’s a reason why chat GPT has that disclaimer at the bottom of, chat. GPT, may, may, may make mistakes. So please check what is, what is put out there. as much as I’ve talked about, you know, leading with data, leading with numbers over the last, you know, however long we’ve been talking. Don’t forget the human [00:34:00] touch on something. because that’s the, that’s the thing that data and ai and that can’t do. So, trust your, your, your gut and an instinct, alongside putting a good foundation there.
Robert Hossary: I was just about to say, you can’t replicate intuition. You can’t replicate intuition that has been built on experience. as long as you’ve got an open mind, that intuition is good. If you, if your mindset is, oh, but that’s the way we’ve always done it, then expect to fail. But intuition is something that AI does not have at the moment, whether it will or not who knows, who knows what happens in the next 10, 15, 20 years, but right now it doesn’t. So, data is good. We are still better at the moment.
Samir Domah: I think it’s a, it’s a challenge to us to stay, to stay better. It’s how, to stay better. It’s, it’s an interesting one actually. [00:35:00] someone used the analogy of, when calculators first came out,
Robert Hossary: Yeah.
Samir Domah: no one went. Oh, we’re not going to need maths anymore. We just learned how to adapt, having calculators in our lives, and we use that to make ourselves better and find efficiencies, and work that way. I think in a world of data and ai, it’s not about replacing what we do, it’s about how do we then, encompass that in our daily lives and working to make ourselves better as humans and make sure we still stay on top. rather than being, ruled by robots, which I think is the, the fear in most people’s minds right now,

Lesson 9: Treat Your Sales Cycles like A Love Marriage

Robert Hossary: let’s go to lesson number nine. treat your sales cycles like a love marriage. I’ll say nothing. I’ll leave it to you to explain that one.
Samir Domah: I’m hoping with some tinge of knowing what I mean when I, when I say this, you know, I love marriage as opposed to an arranged marriage, I guess in, in our culture or my culture, of sometimes we go in with such [00:36:00] a desire to talk about the product that we have. We don’t put in the time and the effort of things like research of who you’re going to talk to and spending the time taking that up, finding those commonality points that are going to be important to them, making yourself look good and polishing the, the presentation or, or what we’re talking about, to planning how the meeting might go, to then, you know, sending it. an email afterwards to go, great meeting. Nice to, nice to have met you. those in principle are kind of the similar lines of dating, right? before you go out with that, that pretty person you’ve met on the internet, going to do a bit of research about who they are. before you go, you’re going to make sure you, you dress well and you, you smell nice. you, you’re going to turn up looking your best. And ultimately, you know, you’re going to spend time listening to them and investing in them as a person. and [00:37:00] then hopefully, you know, once the date’s over, you send a nice text at the end going, Hey, it was really nice. I spent some really great time with you.
We’d like to see you again. Sometimes so there’s some real. Direct parallels between a, a dating cycle or you know, someone you’re going to get married to as much as they say it the same way, as when you, you when you sell stuff. And some might find the analogy a little bit, cringe, but at the same time, I, I think there’s, there’s real value in it.
Robert Hossary: No, I, I, I don’t find it cringe. I, I actually, when you were mentioning that I was thinking back in my early sales career, after every meeting I would send a postcard and I had postcards made up specifically, to thank, you know. Thank you, Samir. And I would hand write a postcard and I would mail it, to the client.
and yeah, it worked. You know, they got a thank you from me. This was, I’m not going to say it was pre email, but it was almost pre email. but it was, it [00:38:00] is like a love marriage. You do need to put the work in if you want to continue that relationship with that client. I totally agree. Yeah, but more so take the, take this lesson more broadly.
Samir Domah: It goes for everything. You know, it, it does go for everything. Everything you do if you put the time and effort into it and show your appreciation those relationships last and grow and become stronger. So, I think it’s a, I think it’s a great lesson. It’s,
Robert Hossary: you know.
Samir Domah: you’ve reminded me of a slightly funny story at the same time by saying that. Yeah.
Robert Hossary: go ahead.
Samir Domah: though you never know when you’re leaving a lasting impression on someone,
Robert Hossary: Mm,
Samir Domah: I say this from a place in that this is kind of almost your postcard piece, right? Of in the moment someone might have not bought from you. But they might come.
Robert Hossary: yeah.
Samir Domah: from you later on. And I say this.
Robert Hossary: Yep.
I asked my wife out and she actually didn’t say yes until six years later [00:39:00] we are married 15 years. So, it’s it, it’s much in the same vein of, again, from the very beginning of our conversation today is put good out in the world and good will find a way of coming back to you. Yeah.
Samir Domah: yeah, absolutely.
Robert Hossary: I truly believe that. I truly believe that.

Lesson 10: The Best DEI Programs Have An Exit Plan

Robert Hossary: Alright, look, Samir, we’ve come up to your 10th lesson that’s gone pretty quick. So, let’s look at and after this, I have one more for you, but let’s look at lesson number 10. So, lesson number 10, the best DEI programs have an exit plan. I’m a little confused about this one.
What? What do you mean? They have an exit plan.
Samir Domah: So, I, I’m a big advocate for, for DEI, by the way, I’ve set up, quite a few networks, either, you know, women in the workplace or race diversity pieces. and often people who aren’t part of those groups can feel quite threatened and [00:40:00] not really, you know, want, want to be a part of it or, or support it. But the
Robert Hossary: Yep.
Samir Domah: of it is it should always be lensed in a way that. you do your DEI successfully; you get to a world where everyone integrates and works well and considers everyone’s culture and everyone’s nuances as a second nature. At which point you don’t need a DEI group. So
Robert Hossary: Correct.
Samir Domah: a DEI group without an exit plan, you are just causing segregation if you run one with an exit plan, Then you are working towards a goal that means everyone’s the same and everyone’s equal, and you see people for people and not for their characteristics.
Robert Hossary: That’s so true. That is so true. The vitriol that’s out there across the world. and Australia is no different, but the vitriol that is out there against diversity and inclusion, it, it is just [00:41:00] from people who don’t understand. But the point you just made, if you don’t have that exit plan, you are just creating, segregation.
I, I. I’ve never thought of it like that, but you are absolutely correct. that is powerful. So how do we go about creating an exit plan? I mean, it’s one thing to say, yep. Everyone should see, you know, beyond race, beyond culture. Everyone should accept everyone as a human being, which I totally agree with.
But how do we do it?
Samir Domah: Yeah, so I think the, the, the, there’s two key factors behind it, and they’re kind of interlaced with one or each other ultimately. One is, allyship is massive. Like, I always give the analogy of, you know, I, I guess women or gender diversity in the workplace, right? If there’s, you know, a massive under index of women in powerful positions, if men keep sitting on the door and [00:42:00] not letting them through, then you’re just going to take forever to try and break down the door of getting through. So having allies in a space, men that will advocate for. For, for women and, you know, people of not colour advocating for people of colour as we, you know, see in, in the UK for example. It makes that thing harder. So, allies really help speed up that journey to kind of everyone being in the same room. And you kind of almost don’t need the walls and the doors because you’re in the same room. and then the other one is, I think actually DEI works two ways. It’s not just about, you know, if we take, you know, culture for example. It’s not just about enforcing one way culture. It’s also about that group absorbing in the culture of, of the other.
Robert Hossary: Excellent point.
Samir Domah: Yeah.
Robert Hossary: Excellent point.
Samir Domah: I think that is then what’s, you know, almost like mixing a, a bag of ingredients together, right? The more you can, you know, put your chocolate chips and your flour and your [00:43:00] water in, by the end of it, you just get chocolate chip cookie, and no one really notices the, the ingredients that went in before. it’s all about working to a state of, you know, that, that chocolate chip cookie, if you will.
Robert Hossary: Look, I. I love it. I, I don’t know if I am ever going to see that in my lifetime. I hope I do. we, I, I used to believe we’re on the path to it, and then for some reason over the last 10 years, it, it, it just started to splinter. I hope we go back to it, and I hope we get there. and all the elements that want to fight it.
grow up and learn.
Samir Domah: Yeah, I think, without getting too much into politics, I think that would be a lesson 11.
Robert Hossary: Yeah. Yeah. We try, we as much as we want to, and as much as we all have opinions, we try very, very hard not to be [00:44:00] political on this show. but there’s enough of that out there. What we try to do is just share wisdom. And I think that is your lesson number 10 is a great lesson to strive for, strive for an exit plan for DEI, which at the end of the day, to me anyway, means that we’ve achieved it.
That’s the exit plan, that everyone is comfortable with it. So, you don’t need it anymore, and it. You know, you get into a role because you are the best person for the role, regardless of your background. So, I, I wish one day, and I, I wish I lived long enough to see it happen, Samir. I really do.
Samir Domah: before we wrap up, let me ask you this. So, with all your years of experience, with everything you’ve learned, with every, all [00:45:00] the wisdom you’ve just shared with us today, have you unlearned anything in your lifetime?
I’ve unlearned that I strive for a place that I need to matter the most in the room. Yeah, I, I, I grew up in a commercial, I’d say in a commercial world, in a bit of a corporate hierarchy where, where you think you need to be.
Robert Hossary: Hmm.
Samir Domah: the loudest voice.
Robert Hossary: Yep.
Samir Domah: and I, I found that, the, the right voice is often more powerful than the loudest voice. and you can do that from a, a, a place of quiet.
And I’ve done that from a, an understated perspective, and landed form far more because I was authentic rather than, being something I wasn’t. So, yeah, absolutely learned that,
Robert Hossary: That’s a, that’s very. A very powerful lesson. Let me ask you this. Based on what you’ve unlearned, how liberating was that? [00:46:00]
Samir Domah: Incredible. it, it’s when you are not being who you are, you live in a pressure cooker and eventually it catches up with you.
Robert Hossary: Yeah.
Samir Domah: you can think you are the most steely person in the world, but it will, it will get you. and being able to be yourself, like you say, is liberating. It takes the lid off the pressure cooker.
Robert Hossary: It really does it. That’s a great, that that is a great thing to unlearn. It really is. so, to our audience that is very powerful. I would strongly urge you all to take a moment and think about. The fact that if you are still striving to be the loudest voice, the biggest chest thumper, whatever, is that really what you want?
Is that going to make you happy? Or are you under pressure? Are you in that pressure [00:47:00] cooker, the Samir just mentioned? And if you are, think about just backing off, it’s a thought. You don’t have to do it. It’s a thought. Samir, this has been a wonderful, wonderful chat with you. I really, really appreciate you making time to be with us today.
Do you have anything that you would like to leave for our audience or how can they find you? How can they contact you?
Samir Domah: For sure. So, I’m, out there spreading bits of wisdom, on Instagram, which is just, @samir_domah or similarly Samir Domah on LinkedIn, as well. And yeah, look, I am just out there trying to make the world a, a better place. and hopefully I can take a few other people on the journey with me.
So, jump in the, jump in the car. Let’s get lost together and let’s find our way together.
Robert Hossary: Fantastic. Well, we’ll put those links in the show notes.
and we’ll finish here Today. You’ve been listening to 10 Lessons Learned, A big thank you to today’s guest, Samir Domah, for [00:48:00] sharing his incredible insights and lessons with us.
And this podcast is supported as always by the Professional Development Forum. And by listeners like you we’d love to hear your thoughts on today’s lessons. As I said before, leave a comment, let us know where you’re listening from or watching from, and which lesson resonated the most with you.
If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to like. Subscribe and turn on that notification bell so you never miss a lesson that could change your life. Thanks for tuning into 10 lessons Learned where we are Making the world a little wiser. Lesson by lesson and remember, you can learn as much from the little guys as you can from the big guys.
Thank you. Bye-bye.

Thanks to our 10 Lessons team that make our show possible: Our Episode Editor Codie Comeau, Marketing and social media managed by Yi Wang, and our Producer Robert Hossary. Sponsored as always by Professional Development Forum. You can find the www.professionaldevelopmentforum.org.

You’ve heard from us we’d like to hear from you. Email us it’s podcast@10lessonslearned.com.

Remember, this is the podcast the only podcast. That’s makes the world wiser lesson by lesson.