Marty Levy – Resistance is Futile

Marty Levy: Hello and welcome to 10 Lessons Learned, where we talk to leaders and luminaries from all over the world to dispense wisdom for career, business, and life in order to make the world wiser, lesson by lesson.
Diana White: My name is Diana White, and I am your host for this episode. Our guest today is Marty Levy.
Welcome Marty. Tell us a little bit about your background.
Marty Levy: Well, thank you for having me here today, Diana. I’m, excited to share some of the, life wisdom I may have acquired, and if it’s not wisdom, people can ignore the points, but I think for the most part, this is going to be interesting to anyone listening, and I thank you for the opportunity to share it
Diana White: I love it. So let everyone know what’s in I know your history because we go way back, [00:01:00] but I mean way back, New York days back, but you’ve got a storied career. Tell us a little bit about it.
Marty Levy: Yeah, most of my professional career was in Silicon Valley in the tech industry. I’m a B2B sales executive and revenue leader. I’ve worked for some of the world’s largest. tech companies, as well as startup companies. So, much of what I’m going to share with you is the wisdom of having spent a multi, decade career in Silicon Valley supported by, the consulting activity that I do today with a lot of startup companies, that I work So, my background is I did in fact grow up in Brooklyn, New York. And, uh, you know, that was my first experience in sales and I’ve kind of, realized that I had a special knack for that. And, I had a chance to explore that in New York after I [00:02:00] graduated from college then I moved to San Francisco and the Bay Area and, I had the opportunity to change industries.
and apply some of the learnings, but of course, learn much more on top of the base knowledge I had, growing up in some of my, career activities, I’ve been in executive sales roles in two public companies. I was a global VP of sales for a successful, startup company that went IPO.
I’ve designed and led a turnaround of a large divisional business. And was co-founder of a startup solar business Today, I moved from San Francisco in the Bay Area to Phoenix, Arizona. You and I have spent time together there. as you know, I provide consulting and advisory roles to many startups in the tech world in the Arizona ecosystem.
my focus is around go to market strategies and revenue execution [00:03:00] plans.
Diana White: I love it. viewers and listeners, Marty and I have been in the same circles for a very long time. I consider him a mentor when you’re in a meeting with Marty, if he sees something that everybody else doesn’t see,
if he has an answer for something, he gets this little twinkle in his eye you learn to look for that, especially if you’re virtual or in person, you learn to just look at Marty and see what’s going on in that head. And you see that twinkle and you say, Marty, you have anything to add?
And then you get some wisdom. So, I’m super excited to jump into these lessons today. But I have an icebreaker question for you. It’s usually one of the most difficult ones. What would you tell your 30-year-old self?
Marty Levy: I had to do it all over again and I could talk to myself and change things. I would basically advise myself to focus on my own, [00:04:00] setting my own aspiration See, people have opinions once they know you, or even if they don’t know you, they kind of. Surmise what you’re capable of and how to succeed.
But if I had to do it all over again, I would just stay focused on my own aspiration levels and execute against what I want to achieve. I think I would get there faster. I’m proud of what I’ve achieved, but my 30-year-old self would have been, more focused and directed, if I blocked out a little bit more of the inputs I got and just set my own, aspiration levels and strove to achieve.
Diana White: I love to hear that. we are proud to say that we have quite a few up-and-coming leaders listening to us to try to figure out You know, how did they do it?
So, I don’t make the same mistakes and can go straight to the top. Right. and when you talk about being young in your thirties. And saying, I would forge my own path. do you have any [00:05:00] advice for our younger listeners on a quick first step to give them the confidence to do that?
Because as you know, in your thirties, you get a lot of people telling you what they think you should do.
Marty Levy: Exactly.
Well, to me, it’s very simple. identify what your strengths are and build on your strengths. Because once you stay on that path, if you allow yourself to be open to learn and explore and identify weaknesses, you have the opportunity over time to complement what is an inherent skill set and learn other skills that would enhance your career.
Diana White: Viewers and listeners, take that and write it in a journal somewhere. It’s going to come back.

Lesson 1: Winning and keeping customers is the essential function of a business.

Diana White: Let’s start with lesson number one. Winning and keeping customers is the essential function of a business. This is so succinctly said, but so [00:06:00] important. Talk to me about it, Marty.
Marty Levy: it’s, essential and we often lose sight of it, particularly in the tech world where people have developed new technologies or have breakthroughs with new products. the conversation is really around the virtues of the product and, you know, what went in involved, what was involved in developing it, but the truth of the matter is, your technology and your product is only meaningful. If customers want it. And so why would there be any other priority than staying focused, being obsessed, if necessary, on engaging with customers, listening to customers, and winning It really is very basic.
You may have a good product. You may not have a good business if you don’t have customers.

Lesson 2: Communications excellence is THE key business superpower.

Diana White: Lesson number two, communications excellence is the key business superpower. Talk to me about that [00:07:00] one.
Marty Levy: It absolutely is. Communication skills are important whether you are selling to customers or leading teams in your own business. it’s important if you’re working with suppliers or partners. It is really doing something more than telling people what you want them to know, but putting it in a format that allows them to hear it is the art of communications So, I think communication skills, your ability to master them, the ability to convey clearly and concisely to others what your point of view is, what your opinion is, in a way that they can hear it, is the super power in business. So, I would encourage everyone, including my 30-year-old self, to focus on improving and enhancing your communication skills.
Diana White: you and I, we deal with a lot of [00:08:00] entrepreneurs, right? I, believe in that statement so much. it transcends, even before you start talking to your suppliers and vendors, you have to learn how to communicate in the right way to potential partners, investors, people you’re bringing on and you can’t afford to pay them a lot of money, but you want to give them stock in the company.
You’ve got to learn how to portray why that’s a good value and communicate it in the right way. You’ve got to communicate with your partner or spouse that this is going to be a heck of a journey but stick with me. that lesson transcends everything.
Thank you for that.
Marty Levy: Yeah, I would just add, it is not what you say, but how you say it that is important to everyone you interact with.

Lesson 3: Be Curious, Keep Learning.

Diana White: Very true. Lesson number three, be curious, keep learning. Now this is a staple for the entire crew of 10 lessons, but what’s your take on this?
Marty Levy: I really [00:09:00] look at it simply. If you’re not in the process of growing, then you’re in the process of dying. The world is moving rapidly. we need to keep evolving. We need to keep learning, and this is a lifelong activity. What I learned in college. some of it was stuff that I’ve carried forward, but really it is the learning along the way that has allowed me to build a successful career so being open to learning, to hearing different inputs, working to achieve learning, consciously focused on it, is going to be important to anything you do. You must continue to grow and, keep learning.
Diana White: I think, and I’m going to paraphrase even though it was my episode. I don’t remember viewers and listeners what I said. I know it was profound. I’ll tell you that.
But I remember saying something to the effect of the day I feel like I know everything [00:10:00] is the day I know I’ve given up.
Marty Levy: Yeah, it’s very true. I agree with that. the key word in this lesson is really curious. It’s not learning. I learn from you. I learn from everyone because I’m curious about you. I want to know your opinion. I want to listen to or watch a documentary because I’m curious about that subject.
So, if you stay curious, curious. You’re going to enhance this continuous learning process.

Lesson 4: Embrace Change. “Resistance is Futile”.

Diana White: And that is definitely good advice for the 30-year-old self. Lesson number four, embrace change. Resistance is futile. And my viewers and listeners, those of you that don’t get that last sentence, ah, it hurts my heart, but I’m going to say it again. Embrace change. Resistance is futile. Marty, take it away.
Marty Levy: You know, there are so many forces [00:11:00] that affect our lives professionally, personally, and every way in between that are out of our control. You know, there are internal forces, there are external forces, but they’re out of our control. if you’re resisting change, you’re really talking about wanting to control.
since you can’t control everything, the opposite seems to be a wise approach. Be flexible, be adaptive, be flexible. Understand that change is going to happen. Sometimes it happens unexpectedly. Sometimes you can forecast it. But rather than fighting change, embrace the fact that change is happening, you are going to be impacted by the change, and you are going to be adaptive, and embrace the change as it’s coming your way.
Diana White: isn’t there, something to be said for that in? A lot of different life lessons. For some reason, I was thinking of [00:12:00] sliding in your vehicle or hydroplaning, and they tell you the best thing to do is to turn into it so that you can keep control of it, right?
there are so many lessons like that in life where they say, stop struggling. Go with the current.
Marty Levy: That’s right
Diana White: Life will be easier.
Marty Levy: Yeah. and I will say that if you stop and survey the landscape of successful people, they’ve gone through the same change processes that you have.
The difference is they’ve adapted, they’ve evolved, and they continue to embrace the fact that change is going to happen. Those that are frustrated or have not succeeded in their lives, oftentimes a common trait. is trying to prevent change from and it just is not an effective life skill. So go with the flow.
Diana White: A lot of energy wasted on trying to stop change. That is for [00:13:00] sure.

Lesson 5: Listen to your gut but don’t rely on it solely.

Diana White: Lesson number five, Listen to your gut. But don’t rely on it solely.
Marty Levy: Yeah, that was an early professional, understanding that I came to I trust myself. I’m pretty experienced. I was capable. went to good schools. So, I felt that my gut was good. And if my gut was telling me to do something, I should listen.
Well, what I found out is that sometimes your gut instincts fool you. They force you to do things that are really not wise or something you have not really thought about thoroughly And so I realized that I needed something more to complement my gut instincts.
And I needed to have a framework against which I can verify whether my gut instincts are correct or not. So, for me, one of the things that I did is I, went back to [00:14:00] school and I got an MBA degree. It helped me think about business situations, business problems in a different way, in a more structured way, in a more objective way than my own instincts.
to this day. I kind of pause before I act because my first instinct is to go with my gut and act upon it. And what I have found, oftentimes, if you take a breath, step back, slow it down a little bit, you then can check in with the more objective side of your brain and blend it together with your instincts.
I think the percentages of good decision making go up quite significantly.
Diana White: I think that there is a really good, sweet spot between that gut instinct and the critical thinking. And when you put them both together, you can make some really solid sound decisions [00:15:00] and then put icing on top of the cake when you have a diverse and committed team that can help you think about it in different ways, right?
When we’re talking about making business decisions. but it really all starts with the individual and you have a little bit of a lesson about that later on,
Marty Levy: I do.
Diana White: with the individual, doing that critical thinking and bringing their gut into the conversation.

Lesson 6: Your reputation is essential to your success. Be vigilant to maintain it.

Diana White: These are just amazing Lesson number six.
Marty Levy: Okay.
Diana White: I believe this one is like a mantra for me. Your reputation is essential to your success. Be vigilant to maintain.
Marty Levy: a reputation is not something that you establish.
It’s a perception that others have about you. They shape your reputation more than you shape your reputation. So, you want to act in a way that is authentic and genuine for you. [00:16:00] So that whatever you say, whatever you do, whatever you’re asking of people is coming from a place where people say, I get it.
I understand him. And, what he’s saying and want to follow along. But the other side of it is that you want to act in accordance with the reputation that you want others to have of you. So, I think being trustworthy, following through on your commitments, those are the kind of things that build your reputation.
beyond what your resume says, or what your wife thinks of you, the truth of the matter is you want to, through your actions, indicate The reputation that you want to have with people, if it’s authentic, people often embrace that reputation because they see it in real time, they know who you are, and you will become known, by those actions [00:17:00] or inactions. And that’s your reputation.
Diana White: It is. And when I talk to young people, professionals just starting out, entrepreneurs, solopreneurs I talk about reputation and I talk about brand building it gets to a certain point where your, your personal reputation, it’s your brand, right? It’s what people know you for. I didn’t understand what that meant. When I was younger, I just knew that I didn’t want to be seen as the lazy person.
I didn’t want to be seen as the late person. I wanted to be reliable, and I wanted to be of service. when I got introduced to servant leadership, I said, oh, oh, I want to be known as the person. That sees you for what you bring to the table and can make a really solid team.
And it just grew from there in terms of what I want my brand to be.
And the good news is, is if you know who you are and you’re coming from a good [00:18:00] place, it’s so easy to cultivate. because like you said, all you have to do is be yourself.
Marty Levy: Exactly. Yeah, I am, I’m glad you brought that out because there is a, I think there’s a confusion about a brand and a reputation, and it really is two different things, but one is derived from the other. I’ve had a personal brand that I’ve had for two, 20 years. Insight, action, results. And how I conduct myself and what I do is exactly that.
You know, I bring insights, thoughtfulness to whatever actions I take. And normally, in most cases, actions and results come from it. And that’s my brand, but it’s based upon who I am and how I conduct myself.
Diana White: And, and I will say that that it’s absolutely true.

Lesson 7: Be trustworthy. Earn people’s trust. Avoid demanding it.

Diana White: And lesson number seven, we talked a little bit about trustworthiness. Lesson number seven, [00:19:00] be trustworthy. Earn people’s trust. Avoid demanding it. I was so glad you added that last part. So, I’m going to read it again. Lesson number seven, be trustworthy, earn people’s trust, but avoid demanding.
Marty Levy: Yeah, look, trust is the most important component in any kind of business relationship, and it’s an essential in customer relationships. People buy from people, and therefore, if they trust you and you trust that you kind of understand what their needs are, good things are going to happen. People are going to come together.
They’re going to take steps to do business with each other. But without trust, everything is suspect. What you’re saying about the product, what you’re saying about your company, what you’re saying about your [00:20:00] competitors, uh, what you’re advising them to do, all can be suspect. But if trust is instilled, if there is a feeling of trustworthiness, then people will move forward with you.
And positive things come The reason I put that last phrase is, is that often when people are moving into a position of leadership, whether it’s at the top leadership or middle leadership, or leading a team, by virtue of their title, people think that you should be trusted just because you’re in that role.
And that is not the case. You have to earn trust and become trustworthy. And if you demand it, people will oftentimes resist you, they will put up walls, and they will never trust you.
Diana White: And, and, you know, even in, in, when it comes to your personal life, um, it [00:21:00] has been a rare, a very, very rare occasion where somebody has said either to me or around me, Well, you trust me, right?
And it didn’t give me like the heebie jeebies, like when you have to ask, like you trust me, right? Like it’s, being forced, it’s being forced. and it’s not a comfortable situation. And so, you, you really, Brought the point home there for sure.
Marty Levy: And the phrase, you know, trust me, you know, often comes up, and it is not something that most people accept at first blush. They need to know who you are, then they can trust you.
Diana White: Right. I think that, again, I’m going to go back to the personality traits and the character I think it’s less, less about people trusting you as the individual and [00:22:00] more about them trusting. What you stand because you’ve been consistent positively over and over again.
And so, I hope that our younger viewers and listeners, understand that this starts early and it’s, and it happens sometimes without me knowing it. And so, we, we have Marty, you and I, when we consult different founders, if they’re of a certain age, they always talk about, things from a different aspect.
And young people may feel like, well, I haven’t been in the game long enough. To develop a reputation. having been in the game long enough for people to feel a certain way about me. That is absolutely not true. Whether you, uh, enact it or not, your reputation is being built.
Marty Levy: every day.
Diana White: So, make trustworthiness a part of it, but don’t force it on people They have to feel it from you by your [00:23:00] actions.

Lesson 8: Listen More; Talk Less

Diana White: and speaking of by your actions, lesson number eight, listen more, talk less.
Marty Levy: Yeah. Look, we all like to talk, especially if you know something, or, you know, as many salespeople are trying to convince somebody of something. You know, the fact of the matter is you can talk all you want, talk about all the virtues. It doesn’t necessarily translate into people, uh, embracing what you’re saying, because chances are they’ve stopped listening, or more importantly, they have a perspective that you didn’t think of, or you didn’t have an understanding So that’s why it’s important to listen more and talk less. Understand what they think, why they think it. What motivates them? Why something is important to them What kind of frustrations do they have You want to be able to talk enough [00:24:00] about what you want to convey, but more importantly, you want to listen more to what they are saying, because that’s what people are going to take action on, is how, what they’re thinking about, what they care about, what they want to achieve.
And so, if you give them the chance, you’re going to learn quite a bit about them, and you’re going to have a more authentic, genuine interaction.
Diana White: That’s so true. And when you’re in sales, that’s one of the first things you learn.
Marty Levy: It is.
Diana White: is. to listen to your customer.
Marty Levy: Yeah, and, and look, the purpose of listening is to understand. Right? And that should be a goal in any kind of business, transaction, or conversation. So, I think most of the time people are listening, but they are [00:25:00] listening so they can respond to what they want to talk about. That’s where things break down.
So even if you listen more, talk less, what you or how you do your listening is equally as important. And, uh, it’s important to understand what matters to them. So, you’re listening to understand, and if you then have a response, it’s going to be a well-grounded response.
Diana White: And it doesn’t have to be a response that is in agreement, right?
You can agree to disagree, but if you can prove that you’ve listened for comprehension, then, then it’s less likely to lead. So, you talked about listening to respond, but there’s also listening to debate, right? Where you’re, you’re, you don’t care what the other person has to say. Your stance is your stance. Well, you know what?
Nobody will ever see the other’s point of [00:26:00] view. You can see each other’s point of view and still walk away thinking something different.
Marty Levy: Yeah. I’ll give you a good example. I learned this early on, um, in New York, my first job out of college was working for a pharmaceutical company. And what
I was to do was to go visit all of the doctors in my territory, and I would follow us. I was instructed to follow a script. This is what you’re going to tell them.
And after I was out in the field interacting with these doctors, I realized that as much as I talked, there were only a couple of things that they really cared about. So, what I discovered is if I can listen more, then I can talk less, but be more impactful.
Diana White: Yes.
Marty Levy: So as an example, you know, it was an antibiotic that we were introducing.
You know, faster, cheaper, better, all those wonderful [00:27:00] virtues. But uh, I started talking to paediatricians and I said, you know, with our antibiotic, your patients will have less side effects. Well, suddenly that 1 sentence changed the dynamics. I became the number 1 salesperson in the country, simply by that statement, talking based upon what I’ve listened to, what I heard from the doctors.
I threw the scripts away, simply and all I did was show up and say, here’s why you should use it, and here’s why this will benefit It changed my life, really.
Diana White: Well, you know, and it’s, it’s an old practice that people forget, right? Which is just, what is your customer’s pain point?
Marty Levy: That’s right.
Diana White: Not, not the virtue or the value you think you’re selling at the product. What is their pain point Um, and you learned that without somebody having to teach you that. That’s awesome.
Marty Levy: Exactly.

Lesson 9: Lead by example. Others will act as you do.

Diana White: That is [00:28:00] Number 9! lead by example. Others will act as you do. I know this from absolute experience, but I would love the experiences that you’ve had with this lesson.
Marty Levy: Yeah, um, this is, this is true in so many aspects of your life and that is, you know, you want to follow your heart. You want to lead in a productive and professional way. And if you are consistent about how you conduct yourself, you communicate in a positive way and in a clear and concise way, people are likely to follow you because they see you living this every single day of your life.
You don’t have to pretend. It doesn’t have to be a new initiative. It is just the way you lead. So, I had a situation where I came in [00:29:00] as, um, as a VP and general manager of the third largest, uh, electronic components distributor in the world. And I came in to run the, the California division. It was in total disarray, total disarray.
So, I walk in there and, you know, there were 50 to 75 people there and you could see the look of skepticism on everyone’s face. And what I said is, look, this is what you can expect of me. This is what, how I’m going to conduct myself and when you see that, this is an opportunity for you to win by following my lead, it’s going to be real easy for you to succeed and win.
And so, I, you know, I recognize there that I can say what I want about leadership, what I would want them to do, but it was really in [00:30:00] how I led, what I did. What they saw every single day that inspired them. And brought cohesion to this ragtag group of salespeople. And it really was a very demoralized situation.
Um, and the result of it is we were able to double sales every year for three consecutive years. The same, more or less the same team, although we did have turnover.
And why?
Because they understood what was expected of them. They saw that the path forward was what they were seeing in me, and they started replicating That’s why we’re talking about lead by example.
Diana White: And it’s one, it’s such an important lesson, and it’s so much a part of our lexicon that parents had to make up the old adage, do as I say, not as I do, right?
Because children don’t listen to what you [00:31:00] say, they watch what you do. And what you do gives them permission to do the same. That doesn’t change when you grow up and into the workforce. You just look at the entity that you’re working for as your quote unquote surrogate, uh, parental figure, right? And if they’re doing some gnarly stuff, but saying something different, it doesn’t sit well in your gut. I think your entire lesson, space.
Just this full circle, right? Everything connects to each other in some way.
Marty Levy: Well, they really do. And as I was preparing for this discussion, it enlightened me as to how these things all interconnect with each other. So, I think you just highlighted something that’s quite insightful and really what I discovered in preparing for this discussion today.

Lesson 10: Great individual performance in a team effort is the model for excellence.

Diana White: Well, we’re down to the last lesson, but it’s, it’s a powerful one as well. And it’s, this is the thing that I alluded to in one of [00:32:00] our previous lessons that we discussed.
lesson number 10, great individual performance in a team effort is the model for excellence.
Marty Levy: It indeed is. Look, we all want to be better. And therefore, we want to optimize our skills, our performance, our knowledge, our expertise. That’s great. However, if you were to do that in the context of a supportive team, whether that team, whether product teams, and the, um, supplier teams, and the partner teams, what you get is a synergy.
Right? It’s a combination of elements. Now, I grew up in New York. I played basketball most of my childhood. You know, we all know the Michael Jordan story, right, with the Chicago Bulls. Michael Jordan was a great individual player, but He, he excelled to the highest level, became a [00:33:00] superstar because he was able to, um, achieve greatness in the context of a team effort.
If he didn’t have the other players doing their job correctly, he would never have achieved superstardom, even though he was a great and I, I think of that as kind of the example of this model for excellence in the business world. The additional element here that applies is collaboration. So, this is a word that people use quite a bit.
It’s a buzzword, but the essence of it is that when you bring together a diverse group of people to get diverse inputs coupled with your own individual skills, you’re going to end up making better decisions and you’re going to be more effective in your actions And the reason for that is that we want to move fast.[00:34:00]
We want to get it done. But if we slow up a little bit, if we listen to other inputs, collaborate and share ideas, we can now operate as a team. I can go perform what I do best, and you can be step, you know, step by step working with me. to execute on our plan that we jointly derived it’s the essence of what I think, you know, creates star performance and excellence in any business activity.
Diana White: Viewers and listeners, when I first agreed to be a host on 10 Lessons, I came up with a list of, uh, potential guests, the bucket lists that I wanted.
And I think, uh, we’re years out uh, Marty was on that original bucket list.
I don’t know if he knows this, but, uh, I finally was able to snag him. And I think everyone can see why. [00:35:00] It took me two years, but it was well worth the wait. Um, an amazing, amazing man with a story career and some amazing lessons.
we have a lot of guests on the show that speak in terms of the wisdom that they’ve gained because of their age. And I love your lessons, Marty, because this is stuff that you can start to implement and start to make a way for yourself. Straight out of undergrad, straight out of college, you can start practicing a lot of these efforts that you can hone over time so that when you get to our ages, you can say, yeah, no, old hat, I’ve been doing this forever.
Marty Levy: Well said. Thank you for the comments and your interest in getting me here. I hope that these, uh, these 10 lessons will resonate with people, because in addition to what you said, you can pick this up at any time.
If you didn’t do it when you were very young, [00:36:00] you can do it when you’re in middle age.
I continue to evolve and build off of these 10 lessons. And so, these are just things that you can build on and grow on and you don’t have to think it only happens at a certain point in your life or in your career.
Diana White: Well, but we’re not done with, extracting all that wisdom from your brain. What have you had to unlearn out of all the things you’ve had to learn in your life? What have you had to unlearn?
Marty Levy: Yeah. Well. You know, I think I’ve always been a highly motivated individual. I want to succeed at the highest level in everything that I undertake, and I conduct myself in that way. Um, and that’s, that’s been true all my life. But especially when you’re younger, uh, you can’t obsess about being successful.
And obsessing about it [00:37:00] doesn’t necessarily move you to success faster. In fact, it creates more stress. It creates challenges in your decision making and your critical thinking. So, unlearned, being obsessive to be successful, act in the ways that we’ve talked about here, and you will be successful.
And I wish I had learned that earlier, because I kind of had the outline, although I’ve learned many of these things at a more comprehensive level that we’ve been talking about, um, but, you really can Overdo this and drive yourself so hard that you really miss the essence of who you are and the value that you can bring into any business conversation.
And, um, you know, the other part of it is that, sometimes being obsessed puts you in a position [00:38:00] where you have a checklist. I need to do this, this, this, this, this. And you feel really good about checking off items on your list. Well, I think what really matters. is I call those activities. What really matters are actions and actions move towards goals.
So, if you’re goal oriented, you don’t have to obsess. You know, if you think about, is my, my action going to help me achieve my goal more than how many things do I need to do? How am I going to get it done? There’s not enough time in a day. You’re going to be in a better place. You’re going to be more successful.
Diana White: Well, with that, I want to thank my guest, Marty Levy, for sharing his lessons with us today. You have been listening to 10 Lessons Learned. This episode is produced by Robert Hossary and Codie Comeau.
Please tell us what you think of today’s lessons. [00:39:00] You can email us at podcasts at 10lessonslearned. com.
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