10 Lessons – Special – Humility

[00:00:06] Yi Wang: welcome to a brand-new episode of 10 Lessons Learned. My name’s Yi, and I’m joined by a great friend and colleague, Jeffrey Wang. how are you today, Jeff?
[00:00:15] Jeffery Wang: Good. How you are going Yi.
[00:00:17] Yi Wang: Very good.
[00:00:17] Yi Wang: so today we continue our experiment with this new format where we dive into the treasure trove of 10 lessons learned library. Look across all of the 120 odd episodes and thousand plus lessons to identify standout lessons, themes that have been shared by our guests. the logic of this format is pretty simple.
[00:00:38] Yi Wang: We’ve had the pleasure to host our amazing guests So in today’s episode, we are talking about this topic of humility, Jeff, you know, being humbled.
[00:00:48] Yi Wang: Feeling humble, is a feeling that we all had before. what does that come to your mind? when you hear the word humility?
[00:00:55] Jeffery Wang: Well, Yi, humility’s probably one of those, core virtues that I regard as, very important, especially, coming from an Asian background, humility is very much a part of our upbringing. This is lessons that keeps coming up again and again, as we talk to different guests in 10 lessons.
[00:01:12] Jeffery Wang: Now I probably want to draw attention to, the lesson by Megumi Miki Megumi says in her episode, lesson number eight, we’re not even a speck of dust in the grand scheme of things. Keep humble, keep curious, keep learning, not take ourselves too seriously. and you know, I guess I like that because what she’s talking about is that when you have that benefit of perspective, having that humility, you realize you’re not the center of the universe.
[00:01:36] Jeffery Wang: it does put you in a better mindset to, not worry about things that you can’t control. and also, just want to Draw on the lesson from Brad Chan, lesson number six. it’s very simple. Be humble. yeah, I noticed because of our culture, upbringing, and, and as you may know, Yi because of our culture, a lot of us, grow up with humility, as something that we are just expected to do, and we take for granted. but we do, because we straddle different cultures. We spend a lot of time in the west. we do find it very challenging to stay humble. While being able to be confident and, achieve the kind of success that we want while remaining true to our humility.
[00:02:19] Jeffery Wang: it is an interesting lesson, but at the same time, not without its challenges because we operate in this, complex world of, a multicultural society, we have to, straddle that fine line between being humble.
[00:02:30] Yi Wang: Yeah, it’s not an easy balance to achieve that. That’s for sure. And I certainly resonate with Megumi’s lesson.
[00:02:37] Yi Wang: Brad Chan’s lesson was great as well. he talked about not being ego driven, having the foresight and intelligence, I think in the, in the business context, I that’s, you know, what our audience really cares about.
[00:02:50] Yi Wang: Brett has given us a great insight. What he defines as humility is that it’s about running companies that last beyond the current leadership.
[00:02:59] Yi Wang: Yeah. well, he did refer to a book by Jim Collins, good to Great. He’s, he spoke concept of level five leadership. and level five leadership is, Brand of leadership that’s characterized by a unique blend of personal humility and professional will. So it’s kind of like a pinnacle of, leadership effectiveness, Hmm organization as you refer to, you know, to succeed beyond the tenure of the leader.so it’s one of those, organizations that, you know, after they succeed, the people would say that we did it ourselves. not realizing it was the leader. That ultimately created the conditions for that, organization to flourish. But I also want to draw on the fact that, there may be some, truth or universalism in terms of this style leadership, because clearly Jim Collins is not from an Asian world.
[00:03:44] Jeffery Wang: and I like to think that humility has that universal, it’s a universal virtue across different cultures. It may be that certain cultures are much more expressive, and they’ve forgotten to emphasize the importance of that humility. but it is something that I believe is still a key ingredient to succeed, no matter which culture you’re operating in.
[00:04:04] Yi Wang: Absolutely. I think, it’s always a balance that you’re trying to achieve. if I were to draw on some personal experience on this, a lot of this concept being humble is built into our brain from, you know, very early days by our, parents and the social setting that we operate in. but I think sometimes people really need to distinguish the difference between humility as a, value trait versus, a behavioural trait where, you know, a lot of the people from the Asian background, for example, just naturally being introverted.
[00:04:37] Yi Wang: These people, you know, actively choose things like a avoid talking in a large crowd,
[00:04:43] Jeffery Wang: mm-Hmm.
[00:04:43]
[00:04:44] Yi Wang: avoid the spotlight and being deliberately low key. to me, those are actually behavioural traits. when you actually do those things, doesn’t mean that you’re being humble, but a lot of people think they are being humble when they do those things.
[00:04:58] Yi Wang: I think that distinction between a value trait and behavioural trait to me is, you know, my personal reflection is that for me, those behaviors may be my default setting. that’s naturally how I feel I, I need to do, or I would do. But certainly, in a lot of circumstances, particularly in a, in a professional, you know, workplace environment. you need to be deliberately out there. You need to make sure your voice is heard.
[00:05:25] Jeffery Wang: mm-Hmm
[00:05:25] Yi Wang: so just defaulting back to those behavioural traits may not necessarily be the right strategy, ’cause, you know, different circumstances in, you know, in in workplace, it really demands you to do different things I suppose.
[00:05:37] Jeffery Wang: what you’re referring to is that the Asian culture tend to be, rather passive. We tend to, trying to dissolve to the background, trying to not, rock the boat cause too much conflict or draw attention to ourselves. Interestingly, Héctor Colón as guest has also explored, in his lesson, which is more the, the downside of humility, I think he says, lesson number two, he said, humility at his cause about serving others.
[00:06:01] Jeffery Wang: what he actually said, which I thought was quite interesting, is that, sometimes humility, is seen as not being confident or lacking ambition, which is what you’re speaking about in terms of, how a person from an Asian culture avoids a spotlight, avoids speaking up.
[00:06:17] Jeffery Wang: What’s, what’s interesting is around the mindset of why they do it. a lot of us don’t want to rock the boat because we don’t want to put ourselves in the firing line. that’s actually a selfish motivation and not necessarily, motivated the right way, what has to be done in order for something to succeed? Sometimes you will force yourself a true leader will overcome that discomfort, or, or that risk to oneself, and say what needs to be said. I think once you are motivated the right way, and that’s what Hector was trying to get at, a humble leader, will do what is required, what is comfortable. and sometimes that means speaking up. Yeah, that reminds me of good CS Lewis quote. Humility is not thinking less of yourself, it’s thinking of yourself less.
[00:07:00] Jeffery Wang: Yeah, I think there’s some truth to that.
[00:07:02] Yi Wang: Yeah, I think you talk about motivation a lot of times it is not always about, achieving something or getting something. it is also about self-preservation. I. I, I certainly, I. I feel that is the case where, you know, particularly people coming from, you know, less fortunate, background, that scarcity mindset is, is always there,
[00:07:22] Yi Wang: so yeah. Again, different circumstances, really demands different approach. I, I suppose Hector’s lesson, the one you brought up also had, a really important message. It is that, and I think really rings true across some of the lessons we just mentioned earlier,
[00:07:38] Yi Wang: is that humility in a, in a business setting, it’s, it’s about being a servant leader.
[00:07:44] Yi Wang: know, if you are a leader, you really are in the service of others in the team. That itself is, really resonating with me at least. when you practice humility as a leader at work, these are the things you really need to do. like, being able to recognize diverse opinions,
[00:08:04] Yi Wang: And giving those opportunities for people to voice different opinions. Different perspectives. Willing to change your mind when you’re being presented with new data, new evidence or argument that suggests, your initial belief, for example. and really trying to understand before, being understood.
[00:08:23] Yi Wang: I, I think those things are, are, are really important as, as a leader, a workplace. and, and that’s all underpinned by this virtue that is humility.
[00:08:32] Jeffery Wang: Indeed. when you talk about servant leadership, Brad also covers that as well, in that he believes that the ultimate formal leadership is what you describe as servant leadership. another, one of our guests that really, that drew on servant leadership.
[00:08:46] Jeffery Wang: is, sheriff. Paul Penzone, spoke about, the, what, what servant leadership is and, interesting point that he made about servant leadership. It doesn’t mean being passive or pushover, you know, and a lot of times Yeah about humility, it doesn’t mean that you are biting your tongue and in fact, you know.
[00:09:02] Jeffery Wang: a servant leader means being honest, even when someone has fallen short, when, they haven’t lived up to their potential. We need to be compassionate at the same time as being candid and truthful. You know, you tell them what they need to know rather than what they want to hear.
[00:09:18] Jeffery Wang: being humble means that.
[00:09:19] Jeffery Wang: we understand that other people will have challenges and shortcomings, and we don’t, judge ’em or, or, or we don’t, hold that against them. But at the same time, we need to be truthful and honest in how we, communicate that to them. And that’s all part of being a humble servant leader.
[00:09:37] Yi Wang: I think humility, you know, if I want to add maybe one last thing, Jeff, humility to me at the end of the day really is situation based, the behavior that we exhibit or we choose to, to do really needs to be cognizant of the situation that we are in, because in many ways you can practice humility, That is different from what you would default to do, as a person.
[00:10:04] Yi Wang: it doesn’t, invalidate the fact that you are a humble person and open-minded, giving other people an opportunity to speak. there are situations where, you know, you’ll have to be really firm. You have to make sure that your voice is, is voiced and your, your opinion’s heard.
[00:10:22] Yi Wang: so, to me, you know, a lot of it is really about being situational aware, and then, you know, being strategic and being selective in your response. that to me is, the biggest reflection from my perspective,
Jeffery Wang: Yeah, being humble means that you accept a possibility that you could always be wrong. if we go into life with that openness, then, you know, you’re opening yourself to wisdom, right? You’re opening yourself to new information. I guess there’s another concept that I want to cover here in terms of humility.
[00:10:51] Jeffery Wang: I think Dr. Andrew Browning, who was the missionary, spoke about. becoming a servant leader. what do you say is lesson number seven, lead by coming last by being a servant, right? there is, the element of. Understanding. So, humility allows us to understand that we, don’t necessarily deserve what we get, in fact, Jack Milligan, also spoke about this.
[00:11:14] Jeffery Wang: we need to stay humble and maintain and servant a mentality and remember to say thank you. I mean, at the, at the end of it, it means that, we have to have gratitude humility reminds us to have gratitude for things that we have. and ultimately that is, I know it’s a bit counterintuitive because, you know, humility makes us understand where we’re in the world.
[00:11:37] Jeffery Wang: And this kind of relates back to Megumi’s point. but our, insignificance actually does not make us depressed. In fact, they make us grateful. It, it, it’s. Speak to something much deeper in us, having that worldview will allow us to be happy, you know, and, and sort of goes on to that age old, what’s the secret?
[00:11:54] Jeffery Wang: What’s the secret of happiness? it’s gratitude. It’s about, focusing on all the good things and being humble allows us to do that because, the opposite, humble, is thinking that you deserve everything and when you don’t get it, you’re not going to be very happy.
[00:12:08] Jeffery Wang: Yeah, but being thankful for everything that you got given. that is certainly a way to be appreciative of what you have.
Yi Wang Yeah, look, it’s, been a great conversation, Jeff. as always, when we chat, this is sort of the, the deep meaning and, and insightful knowledge that I get from our, our conversation. this is certainly no difference.
[00:12:28] Yi Wang: So, I think we can finish off here, the end of this short episode, on the topic of humility. I hope, everyone who’s listening to this enjoyed our conversation and certainly keen to hear your perspective on this great topic and share that with us. whenever you enjoy this podcast on all the social platforms.
[00:12:50] Yi Wang: thank you very much and have a great day.
[00:12:51] Yi Wang: Thank you.

Thanks to our 10 Lessons team that make our show possible: Our Episode Editor Codie Comeau, Marketing and social media managed by Yi Wang, and our Producer Robert Hossary. Sponsored as always by Professional Development Forum. You can find the www.professionaldevelopmentforum.org.

You’ve heard from us we’d like to hear from you. Email us it’s podcast@10lessonslearned.com.

Remember, this is the podcast the only podcast. That’s makes the world wiser lesson by lesson.