Elena Lennox – Accept What You Can’t Control

Jeffery Wang: Hello and welcome to 10 Lessons Learned where we discern wisdom for career, business, and life. In other words, you’ll learn valuable insights that you can’t find in a textbook because it took us years to learn this stuff. My name is Jeffery Wang. I’m the founder of the Professional Development Forum and your host today.
This podcast is sponsored by the Professional Development Forum, which helps diverse young professionals find fulfillment in the modern workplace.
Today we are joined by Elena Lennox. Elena is the founder of developmental Safety and a Strategic Resilience Facilitator. That’s quite a mouthful.
We will find out what that means in a minute. Elena’s goal is to create a mentally healthy workplace where people feel valued and safe to speak out. She develops bespoke training and coaching to support leaders and to grow [00:01:00] team resilience using the Working with Resilience Toolbox. Elena is also a kayaking coach and a competitor in the sport of Slalom kayaking. She was intrigued by the effect of the mind on the body. Elena believes that performance management in sports is much closer to real life than you would believe. She’s also the founder of Courageous Women global community as she had to find enormous courage to speak out about how she was abused in the past, Elena created a nurturing space for professional women to share their challenges and grow their capabilities as long, as well as inspiring others.
Wow. That’s quite a resume, Elena. Thank you so much for joining us.
Elena Lennox: Thank you for having me, Jeffery, and I have to add to that I don’t do the sport now, but I really enjoy the adrenaline rush of the sport. And some of you might have seen Jess Fox on TV, and my claim to fame is that I kayaked with [00:02:00] Jess Fox, and she was about 11, and she beat the pants off me then, so it was lots of fun.
Jeffery Wang: Wow. And how good does she go?
Elena Lennox: with having a mum and a dad who are world champions, then she has that special something that comes to the fore, so she’s really fantastic.

Lesson 1: You’re A Long Times Deed

Jeffery Wang: Beautiful. we will unpack all of that through the lessons, I suspect. So, let’s just jump straight into it then. lesson number one, you’re a long timed deed.
Elena Lennox: I’ll reference that first, Jeffery, that, I’m a proud Scottish Australian and my full name is Elaine Ballantyne Stewart Lennox. Quite a mouthful. And so that Celtic heritage has come together with my love of the Noongar Bhoja. And so, the lessons I’m talking about tonight have a sprinkling of Scottish, language if you like, and a little bit of that earthiness of the Aboriginal culture. And a long time deed is that expression that [00:03:00] is so important in our life. Number one thing to remember is that we may not be on this earth for very long. And my, my, my mother died when she was 42 and my brother was in the Gulf War, and he was shot down as a pilot when he was 34. And so, her absolute learning, even when I was a child, she had all these boxes with the money for the rent and the electricity. And then she would just, sometimes scoop it all up and she says, we’re going away down South, which that was a wonderful lesson. And then that was pivotal to why I’m here now. It’s the fact that I decided I needed to leave England where I was living and go on a round the world trip. And on that round the world trip, I met my husband who lives in Australia. So, every day is precious. Say yes to that opportunity.
Jeffery Wang: Wow. you’re a long time deed, okay, now I get it. So, treasure the time that you have while you’re alive. So basically, seize the day. [00:04:00] And make the most of it. That’s quite a way to open, with your number one lesson.

Lesson 2: You Can Be Softer and Still Be Successful

Jeffery Wang: Lesson number two, you say that I can be softer and still be successful.
Elena Lennox: Yes, if you’ve met Scots, they have a very tough Scottish candour, an honesty that’s sometimes based in sarcasm. And when I came to Australia, I had to leave in that somewhat because People get hurt, but I remember a time too that my grandfather saw me walking down the street, and he looked out the window, as he did, and he says, My arse looks fat in those jeans, Elaine. I never wore jeans again. that harshness has to be leavened, and I recognize that. Whilst that was a bit tough in that environment, and my grandmother had nine children, it taught me a sense of resilience. And so that if somebody said something rude to me, I could say something back. But from where I’m sitting now, softening my demeanour and bringing in the feminine [00:05:00] has been my goal for quite some time. To be that very strong leader is great, but you don’t have to be really tough. You can soften it, and you can still achieve your goals.
Jeffery Wang: Yeah, that I can definitely identify with. and in fact, the, Scottish candour you refer to, I think I’ve experienced firsthand when I first moved into a Western country and, and learned what, what it meant to, be more direct in your communications. and so, I, I can identify with that by, I suppose I can relate to that because we come from the opposite end of that spectrum where, we, as, as, from people from an Asian heritage often avoid that direct language and that candour.
but I suppose the downside of that is that we often don’t take criticisms quite as well and don’t have that resilience to be able to deal with direct feedback. so how do you find that balance, between, diplomacy and radical [00:06:00] candour?
Elena Lennox: Look, when I said at uni, to my lecturer on the third and year three or something, so where did, where are you going? What’s happening next? I said, I want to learn diplomacy and he nearly fell on the floor because he was laughing so hard. so, one needs diplomacy because you can push somebody into a corner or you can, find a way to support them so that they can move forward. but it’s, if one doesn’t speak up, I teach people to speak up. And one of my favorite things to say is, I was surprised when this happened. This is what I would like. And then you leave. So, it’s not a discussion point. You tell them, and it’s not an aggressive way of doing it, but you stand your ground and say, I was surprised when you were very angry, or this happened yesterday. I would like you to trust me. And then you move away because otherwise they’ll just go, oh, I need to respond.
Jeffery Wang: that’s a very It’s very interesting, actually, and that’s [00:07:00] a very unusual way to deal with it. And come to think of it, that’s a very creative way to deal with potentially, a confront, I suppose a confrontation or conflict situation. and has that worked for you in the past?
Elena Lennox: yes, it worked with my son who had some issues, his mature state, and it was from the past. And eventually he came back to me and said, look, I think this was old stuff, mum, I need some help. So, he was angry at something. And I said, look, please trust that I’m coming from the best day space, he felt that I was criticizing him. So, within our family relationships, people often are more trigger on that sensitivity. They’re more sensitive. And it’s finding a way, I was surprised, not I was upset because that puts the ball back in their court and makes them feel unhappy.
Jeffery Wang: Oh, I understand. So, I think just to play it back, just to make sure I understood the lesson, I suppose being diplomatic, being softer as you refer to, allows you to address the emotional side of what’s required. [00:08:00] And still, you can find a way to be assertive and still get your point across the way you would if you were to just employ your typical Scottish candour.
So
that’s a very good, that’s a very good lesson.
Elena Lennox: Yes, and confidence is just so important. Building confidence for everybody takes time, but everybody can learn to be resilient. It’s not something you’re necessarily born with, but we can all become more resilient.

Lesson 3: Accept What You Can’t Get

Jeffery Wang: All right. Lesson number three, accept what you can’t control.
Elena Lennox: That was part of the lesson of my learning from the past. Before my mother died, sometime before that, she fell down and never walked again. And it was a virus, like polio. So, she was in hospital for over two years. And there was nothing I could do about it. And there is that pragmatism again from my heritage of, this is how it is, I never saw myself as hard done by. I never saw myself as a victim. And so how we look at the world and our circumstances. [00:09:00] I might have occasionally had a hole in my shoe, and we couldn’t afford new shoes. But I didn’t feel, as I say, like a victim. And that’s a whole different shift in your mindset. When it’s not poor me, I felt empowered to go and visit her. And it was a bus. A train and a bus and I came home late at night and I’d be 14 but my parents gave me that opportunity to go and do that whereas now we are in that snowplough, or you might know a few tiger mums, who fight for the children and give them the opportunity to face challenges.
Jeffery Wang: Yeah, so 14 year old, that’s quite a, that’s quite a conundrum, that you find yourself in when you’re 14. so, at the time, you didn’t, how is it that you’re able to not feel like you’re a victim, when you’re almost, forced to grow up, right? if you, when your mother. is in the hospital for two years.
So there goes your childhood, there goes your chance to be, to socialize with your [00:10:00] friends and enjoy being a, I suppose a teenager at the time. how did you come to terms with that?
Elena Lennox: I, I guess I was an arrogant little shit a lot of the time when I was 14. I thought I knew everything. And my father was wonderful, but I have worked through various scenarios because it’s that skin of the onion. When you talk about things that have happened in the past, there are always things. And it wasn’t so much my mother being where she was for such a long time, there was a sense of abandonment because my dad went away every other weekend and spent time over with her near the hospital. So that, that abandonment was there. But I had such amazing, strong roots and strong people around me who accepted, you accept something and that is the status quo.
Jeffery Wang: And indeed, accepting, by accepting and embracing it, it made you who you are today. would you say that the, the experience of having to go through that [00:11:00] allows you to develop the resilience and the strength that you have today to cope with, what you had to go through in your life.
Elena Lennox: 100%, Jeffery, it stood me in good stead when I moved on to a marriage that wasn’t a good marriage. So being strong was innate in the culture of the matriarchal Scottish culture. Women were pretty stoic, but they didn’t really have time to embrace their feminine. It was, they were the managers and, they ruled the household.

Lesson 4: You Don’t Have to Tell Someone When They’re Wrong

Jeffery Wang: There you go. speaking of marriage, I think it might have something to do with lesson number four. You don’t have to tell someone when they’re wrong.
Elena Lennox: that’s something a little bit different that, in that strong culture, there was always this, belief that you could really have a real good argument or discussion with somebody. And again, that doesn’t always sit well here. People think that you’re just arguing. against them. You’re against them. And I like a great discussion, but I recognized [00:12:00] not too long ago that when I kept telling somebody about something and I was right and they were wrong, there’s an arrogance there that assumes that you’re better than them and that more than them. And so, I had to let go of that need to be right. I think many of us have a need to be right and prove our point. And so, it came to fruition. I was in Cusco in Peru, on a trip and, at a restaurant and a lady said, we go right to get back. And I said, no, no, no, we go left. No, no, we go. Right. And I let it go. So, letting go of the need to be right is a big thing.
It was a big thing for me that I had to tell somebody and prove that I was right. And we got lost, but we had a great night.
Jeffery Wang: Oh, tell me more. how did you have a great night when you got lost?
Elena Lennox: if you’re in a city in Peru, as Cusco is with lots of indigenous people and going around the back streets, not [00:13:00] knowing no map, no Google, you have to ask people. And so, we made, we struck up many conversations and. I just love it. I love that diversity and talking to new people.
Jeffery Wang: Oh, beautiful. And so, because of the mistakes you made, you actually ended up having a great experience. And so sometimes, you don’t always have to be right because you never know what you might find, when you go down the other path. this does actually explain a lot. I did have a Scottish colleague, who at times could be quite challenging when you’re, when you’re, trying to, having him in a meeting with customers, and you’re absolutely right when they try to correct them.
sometimes to our detriment, because, he would find, certain things that he can’t just let go. And, and he feels the need to have to correct the customer if the customer’s wrong on the technical detail. but sometimes it’s better to, just let it go and, and look at the bigger picture.
yeah, so that’s a very wise lesson indeed.

Lesson 5: It’s A Gift to See Ourselves from Others’ POV

Elena Lennox: And sometimes, not [00:14:00] correcting them is going to lead to a better result as you would have in that particular instance where you had a great night out. so yeah. Lesson number five. it’s a gift to be able to see ourselves from the point of view of others.
Yes, absolutely. many people will know Auld Lang Syne, written by Rabbie Burns, Robert Burns. And the quote that comes from one of his poems was, oh, would some power the gifty gie us, to see ourselves as others see us. And the poem is called To a Louse. Now, some will know that a louse is a, I’m feeling itchy already, but, is a little insect that lives in human beings, on humans, and there was a situation in the church and Rabbie did not like the establishment, and so this lady was very proud of her posh hat, and there on this posh hat was a louse crawling along, so the whole congregation could see Mrs McMurtry, or whatever her name [00:15:00] was, in her beautiful finery and had this creature on her hat.
Jeffery Wang: And so, nobody can see, everybody can see her and the louse, except for herself. so what you’re saying, if I’m trying to make sense of it, is that, We should try and see ourselves from the point of view of others, or does it, do you mean to become more aware of how we present to others or to be aware of who we actually are?
Elena Lennox: It’s self-awareness. But it’s also sensitivity to listen with your ears but listen with your eyes. So, you’re reading a person and you’re reading the person’s reaction. And those people in the church would have been aghast or laughing, and she would have no idea why they were laughing. And so, it’s to be, to read the room and see and listen.
So that brings me to this concept of listening and listening. If we listen to ourselves, [00:16:00] it’s a big thing. I, it’s amazing. And you go, oh, did I say that? Or did, why was I a bit sharp? And so that gives you that learning and that insight as to maybe cross with somebody and you try, you’re not showing it, but you’ll be a bit sharp. And they don’t know why. You may be a shark with them, but it comes out. And so that listening to self is number one in Oscar Tromboli’s. five levels of listening,
Jeffery Wang: Wow. Tell me a bit more. so, I am familiar with Oscar Tromboli and his five levels of listening. and actually what, as you were saying about, listening with your eyes, it did remind me of what he said. So, what are the five levels and why is it so important?
Elena Lennox: I might get them mixed up, but let’s, it’s, if you think of the baseline is listening to yourself and then you are listening to, the, probably the content.
Jeffery Wang: The words
Elena Lennox: content, the words, you’re listening to the words, because what somebody says is one thing and what they don’t see is another. So that’s [00:17:00] what’s left unsaid.
Jeffery Wang: Yeah. So, it’s about listening to what they said, listening to what’s not said, listening to what they actually mean,
Elena Lennox: Context is very important when you’re reading, when you’re looking, when you’re listening. If you’re coming from a background, as I said, like the tiger mum, whom I’ve met recently, she knows that her background brings an intensity to her relationship with her children. And so that intensity she recognises in Australia is maybe not always what, what works here. The context of her background and I’ve talked about the context of my background are very different. Each with this, with different skill sets. So, it’s very important to know where is somebody coming from in the office today? Are they coming from a space of they’re just in the middle of a divorce? Um, and they’re very cross.
Jeffery Wang: that’s right. Yeah. So, one thing I really like about the five levels is that you’re not just listening to the words, but you’re listening to the context, you’re listening to what’s not said, you’re listening to the meaning. And [00:18:00] I think it’s one of those things that, if everybody practices listening the way it should, we talk about how important communications is and half of communications is listening rather than speaking, and, but if everyone practices the deep listening, I think we would be able to solve so much of our most wicked problems in this world. you’re thinking about, all the conflicts, the wars, the misunderstandings, the biggest disasters, I believe that if we had better listening skills, we’d be able to, deal with a lot of those, and certainly, it goes back to your point that it’s a bit of a gift to be able to see ourselves from the point of view of others, the cost of not being able to listen to others, to, to ourselves, to, to our businesses, to our, relationships.
Elena Lennox: Yeah, this has to be a really top, lesson. and the other thing, as I said, you listen with your eyes. So, somebody’s Nicely, and they’re happy, and they’re sitting like this. Then there is a disconnect between their actions and the words. [00:19:00] So emotionally, cognitively, they’re in a space, and then emotionally, they’re in another space. So, you have to bring in that listening and that level as well.
And I can also see an additional cultural element in that a lot of us are from different backgrounds, and certainly the way we express ourselves in words would be very different from one culture to another. So sometimes listening with your eyes also means being able to listen across different cultures and understanding that we have very different ways of expressing.
Jeffery Wang: And I think, as you’re, explaining when you’re growing up as a Scottish, in, in a very typical Scottish Candor, you would say a lot of things, but as we learn, across different cultures, the way we communicate is very different. And the way we become aware of that is that listening.
Elena Lennox: and I met, or I was, doing some work with Oscar and was very happy to become an ambassador for, deep listening. So, it’s a real passion of mine to work with [00:20:00] organizations and think of where that listening will take them if they don’t listen. So, I worked with some engineers who were, working on dams and civil. infrastructure, and one of the team leaders. Did a little quiz, which Oscar has online, and he looked at the listening villain, and his listening villain was he’s an interrupter. And he was really put out. But maybe an interrupter, he said, but I’m helping, I’m helping people. And there’s a man in the corner, his off sider. going. So we discussed in an open way what the consequences were of not listening to people reporting to him about the work going on the infrastructure, the damn wall perhaps, and I said to the young man in the corner, what happens if you’re interrupted constantly, should I stop talking? So, he would not be doing a full report. Because that solutions person is looking to save somebody and fix things without listening. And often you’ve got to think, why am I listening? How am I listening? Am I listening so I can do a quick reply? And [00:21:00] often we’re thinking, and we want to jump in. And those people who jump in and interrupt. it’s. It’s not for the best. The consequences could be huge.
Jeffery Wang: Indeed, we need to listen to understand before we formulate that response. And yeah, I can certainly identify with that and probably fall victim to the same the listening villains at times, we were, we’re jumping in trying to, say our bit, but really, it would serve us much more if we were to spend that time, try to understand before we jump in with our own solutions.
Elena Lennox: And by the time we get to the end of the conversation, sometimes we’ve forgotten what we want to say and we’re running through our head what I’m going to say next and not listening. So, it’s always a good idea to say, look, I just want to write something down. But it’s also being able to end the conversation if somebody’s talking too long.
That’s another skill, a different skill.

Lesson 6: “You’ve got a tongue on your heed.”

Jeffery Wang: That’s right. Speaking of ending conversations, I don’t know if that’s related, but lesson number six, you’ve got a tongue on your [00:22:00] head.
Elena Lennox: That’s right. It’s another Scottish saying that, and it’s, if you don’t ask, you don’t get. So many people are too shy to ask. Ask for a pay rise, negotiate a change in a contract, negotiate something that might be so important that needs changing, but they can’t speak up. So, teaching people to speak up is, I’m very passionate about that. And to do it diplomatically as well is a skill. It’s an absolute skill to be able to do that, and it gives you confidence if you practice and practice that speaking up. So, it’s just asking for help, asking somebody to run through something with you and have a practice. So, you’ve got a big question you want to ask, or you want to go and talk to your boss about something you’re so passionate about, but you think you’re just going to be stonewalled perhaps, it’s to have that courage. And particularly for women who statistics show that they are less likely to get a pay rise if they ask for it. [00:23:00] So it’s understanding your own worth. and that’s where the courageous women’s story comes in. So, understanding that to be successful needs some training, success is not your success. We have to keep that childlike curiosity and keep listening and keep learning. And I mentioned as an aside about the kayaking around the world.
So that’s a courage for me is not going down rapids. There’s different types of courage. And so, the courage that, that comes to me or came to me in the last two years was coming out on LinkedIn to say that I had been in a, abusive relationship. And even now it makes me feel a bit, it’s a bit cringeworthy. I was so cross to find that domestic violence had gone up, the figures, the stats had gone up during COVID, that I felt compelled to speak out against domestic violence, bullying, all the things that we unfortunately still have in the workplace. And principally, not always, but some women are, very bad, but lots of men too.
And so, working with women to know their own worth and have the strategies to be able [00:24:00] to go forward. And that is very powerful, very powerful to have a group of women who can inspire others.
Jeffery Wang: Indeed. So let me just, unpack that a little bit. so first point around, asking for, you don’t ask, you don’t get. So definitely I, I agree with that. And in fact, a lot of people, and a lot of people are too afraid and not have the confidence to be able to ask for what they really want in their life.
And as a result, their life is probably less satisfying and unfulfilled. and often what I don’t realize is that people are actually very happy to help them. If only they ask, we’ll all be better off if everyone are more fully expressed. Of course, we got to do it diplomatically. but certainly, I think, being able to express what you want is a very key skill.
and again, these just takes time and wisdom because a lot of young people struggle with this. and with time you, I suppose you, you develop the experience. and the [00:25:00] confidence to go and ask for what you want. second point I just want to unpack there is around, the courage, piece of what you’re asking.
And so, you said that coming out and acknowledging your story about your abuse that you suffered was a big, Bigger, it took more courage to do that than going down a massive river around the world. And that’s a very interesting observation that, that courage, is different for people. Now people might think you’re a bit of a daredevil going on these kayak, kayaking adventures, but for you, yeah, the hardest part is to talk about your experiences and your feelings.
And I think there’s a lesson to be unpacked there around the courage to speak your mind and become, more fully expressed, more in touch with yourself and be, say the things that are truly important in your mind.
Elena Lennox: It’s quite [00:26:00] a jump from going to ask a boss for a pay rise, which you can learn how to do that with help with a mentor, to saying, and there’s such a societal stigma that you have to come up against, and the shame. So, it was the shame. And we all have situations that bring a sense, an emotion to the fore, which is more than the sum of the event, or even that Things that you might say and what you say and what you feel might not be the same.
Jeffery Wang: Oh, indeed. And I think there’s a lesson for parents as well, in that we should be Encouraging our children to, to ask and to be, I suppose to have that confidence in expressing their inner desires. Most kids would be a lot more fully expressed, but then somewhere down the line, we learned, we get, we get repressed into a mold where we don’t feel like it’s socially acceptable to express our, what we truly think, and yet, as we get [00:27:00] older, we learn to come back and say a bit more and be more in touch with what we truly want.
Would you agree with that?
Elena Lennox: There is that teenagerhood where one often feels very inadequate and in the early years it’s to give the children the opportunity. I remember being told by my mother, I don’t know where to go, we don’t know where we’re going in Edinburgh, no maps, go and ask that lady where such and such park is. Mom, you ask.
no, it’s your turn. So, I, at eight years old, had to go and ask for directions. And then report back. So, giving that opportunity to a young person is really uplifting.
Jeffery Wang: Yeah, and that’s, and I think we need to be intentional about that, as I feel that, young people with the ability to ask a stranger and, form a relationship, to navigate your way through, situations that you might not be familiar with, these are the life skills that are so important later on in life.
If you want [00:28:00] to find, success in your business or your career, or in fact, life in general, isn’t it? Your ability to have that conversation and generate that relationship.
Elena Lennox: And truly, as you said, Jeffery, people are very kind. If you ask, and you ask for help or ask for some advice, they love it.
Jeffery Wang: That’s right. and often, as the receiver of advice or a favour, we often don’t realize that, people who give it, not only happy, But they themselves benefit from there, and this is how we build a community, and essentially, I feel like a society that has more give and take from each other, is a far better society than one that sort of just stands at arm’s length and no one really has that, if people don’t help each other out, we don’t really have a community.
And think, we are creatures, we’re social creatures. We need to be, in that community to be, essentially, happy and [00:29:00] fulfilled. so, I think the more we ask, the more we give, the more we receive, the better off we would be as people.
Elena Lennox: But it’s much easier to give than to receive. We love to give and then we don’t want to ask. If we feel that we are less, we have lost status and so giving out, but if you allow somebody else to give to you, you’re allowing them to feel empowered by giving you something. But it’s a hard lesson that people don’t always understand.

Lesson 7: Tap into Dadiri that deep inner listening to use your intuition.

Jeffery Wang: Indeed, and I think that certain cultures definitely feel that more than others, and I could relate to that in certainly in the Asian culture, we’re extremely reticent to ask for favours. which is, something that I, we, I think we struggle a lot with.
lesson number seven. I like this one because you talk about a concept that I don’t think I’ve heard of before.
You say that [00:30:00] lesson number seven, you say, tap into Dadiri that. Deep inner listening to use your intuition.
Elena Lennox: That’s right. It’s, even hearing the word makes me feel calm. So, we’ve talked about the levels of listening, and this is another level of listening. And We are recognising in today’s physics that there is more than just the material part of ourself. We are all energy. And so that deep connection to self is something that’s very well known to Aboriginal people and Indigenous people around the world, that they really understand, not only that intuition so valuable to them, but also their connection to the land. Is tangible through this inner sense and the inner senses that connect them in an energetic way is so valuable to them. So, this is a lady called Miriam Rose, Ungunmerr Baumann. She lives in the Daly River. She was, I think the first teacher, in Australia who was [00:31:00] aboriginal, was an Aboriginal person. And she, has now grown into this amazing. presenter, if you ever get the chance to see her or go on YouTube. She speaks so beautifully about her traditions and her lore, and I was very lucky to travel up north and meet elders. I’ve met elders around Australia and so I feel a wonderful joy to listen to these elders. I had an Aboriginal adopted mother who, frankly, she told everybody that they were Her children are aunties. She was the, but she was my mother. And so, when she connected to the land, she would call in the ancestors and the power in that energy that she had was beyond belief. And so, when she said, call me mother, mum, I got quite distressed having lost my mother. So, she took me down to the billabong where it was flowing, sat down and told me a little story. And connect to the water energy and [00:32:00] flow, let it flow, was magical. And then I opened my eyes and up above us there was about 10, 12, 15 blue butterflies. in the tree. So, it was such a deeper connection to my inner self.

Lesson 8: Thought Creates

Jeffery Wang: So, lesson number eight, thought creates and a hundred percent the mind is such a powerful tool. it’s amazing how much, your mind creates the reality that you live in yeah, so I’m with you. it’s important to pay attention to our thoughts and how they impact how we, how we see the world and the reality as we know it.
Elena Lennox: Yes, and I heard the phrase recently, good girls don’t.
And so good girls don’t speak up. Good girls are pleasers. Good girls don’t step out and tell somebody off who’s above them. So, there’s that negativity or as a young person when I was in primary, last year primary, I was I can think back and know I was [00:33:00] told you were too big for your boots. Too big for your boots. And so, I think after that I had the head below the parapet and didn’t excel. I did not excel in high school. and that thing of stay hidden somewhat, you know.
Jeffery Wang: So, so how did that impact you? so this is, this is obviously something that you get, you got taught that, that, so here’s your box, get in it or stay in there. how, how does that impact you?
Elena Lennox: I truly believe that I, didn’t do so well at high school and could have done a lot better. I had to fight for a place at university, but I was also a little bit slap happy, and I didn’t have a mother around to supervise. dad was fantastic, but I was the mother and cook and all those things and no excuse.
I was also slapdash. a B was good enough. It was just good enough. yes, that being too big for your boots didn’t cut me down altogether. I’m pretty safe because I had the confidence to know that, know my [00:34:00] own worth, to absolutely believe in myself. But we all have a desire to stay safe. And that desire to stay safe can keep us small, but I really believe that you don’t have to be small to be humble. That was something I learned not too long ago, that humility has been brought into the equation way back with the Catholic Church. It suited the landowners to keep the small. And so, for so many years, ordinary people didn’t have the power to connect with their God. You had to go through a priest. So, if you didn’t go to church, you were punished, and it was the punishment. And you kept up, you kept getting the punishment and then because you had a reward in heaven, not now, but later. And that has a lot to answer for in, different societies. You can do horrible things, but you’re okay because when you’re up there, you’re, you’re good.

Lesson 9: Learn To Know Your Own Worth

Jeffery Wang: Yeah, that doesn’t make any sense. But, although that’s a great segue to lesson number nine, learn to know your own worth. Now, this is a lesson that we’ve had, Quiet, quite a few times at 10 Lessons. and what a, [00:35:00] although it’s a very common lesson, we’re always very interested in learning about how you came to learn your own worth.
Elena Lennox: Oh, thank you. I guess I’m learning more from the group Courageous Women. I hear stories of women who, the stories are just terrible, absolutely terrible, who leave their job because they have no other option. They’ve been bullied and the manager or the manager above them won’t listen. and that’s a different conversation of course, but I think to know your own worth in business, you have to be strategic. If you go in there with some grand ideas, there needs to be the framework behind it that supports the business growth. We are all cogs in the wheel and sometimes we have amazing ideas and if we’re lucky we have a creative boss who believes that you can be innovative and give it a go. And to recognize that if you have a great idea, you might have five great ideas and two work out. So being allowed [00:36:00] to fail is important, but if you know your own worth, then you can be innovative. you want to move forward in a business, you have to be strategic and think how does it match up with business KPIs? How does it match up with my KPIs? And then you present it in a way that makes the company look good and it’s not just about you.
Jeffery Wang: but where, how did you come to the realization that you are valuable?
Elena Lennox: That’s going back again to the childhood thing. So often people, have a brave front, but somebody’s told them in the early days, I see it again and again as a coach, not good enough, And so we have the great process, progress going for women to become leaders, but some women don’t, will never see themselves as a leader. So that’s the first stumbling block. knowing your own worth can be, can take time to unravel. That what is the underlying belief that is holding you back?
Jeffery Wang: So, it’s understanding the trauma [00:37:00] or all the things along the way that you’ve been taught. the fact that you can’t color within the line. So, you’ll never become an artist. And, because for me, it’s that, English is my second language, so I can never be a great writer.
And there are all these false assumptions that people tell you and you tell yourself, or you believe in it. so, knowing your worth is about challenging all the falsehoods that people have told you to keep you in your box, so that we can, yeah, so it keeps you from being all that you can be.
okay. I like that one.
Elena Lennox: I’m a big fan of coaching and I get coaching as a coach. And so cognitively, we know these things. I worked with one lady who had seen psychologists and counsellors, and she said, cognitively, I know what happened with my family. She said, emotionally, I can’t let it go. It’s getting to that emotional iceberg, the bit underneath you, to understand that and let it go is much harder.

Lesson 10: People Don’t Leave Businesses – They Leave People

Jeffery Wang: Oh, 100%. And, yeah, it’s much easier said than done. up here, you understand, [00:38:00] but in your heart, that’s, that’s a whole different process. All right. Which brings us to lesson number 10. People don’t leave businesses. They leave people. Talking about bad bosses, I presume.
Elena Lennox: This is coming back to the other side of the coin, the developmental safety. Safe place to work. So, it’s not always bad bosses. It’s sometimes there are systems in place. This is how he’s always done it. If I might take a law firm, the partners have been through a rough ride to get where they are, and they want to sit back and earn the money. And there’s billable hours. But they call this thing in accounting and in law, it’s, churn and burn. You bring in the grads and you work them to the ground. I think it’s not conscionable. It’s not, there is no integrity there. Just because you’ve done it, doesn’t mean that system works. So, they may [00:39:00] not be bad people, but the system is stacked against them. New people and perhaps people who don’t have that resilience to cope and so they leave. These people who’ve started the training, you’ve invested time in them, and they go, I’m not staying here. So, recognising not only that, it’s against the law to have these punitive systems in place that cause stress.
Jeffery Wang: But does the stress cause results? I presume, what you’re saying is that, yes, it’s unethical. It’s unconscionable, but. If they get the billable hours and they get the profits, people are going to continue to do these things.
Elena Lennox: Yes, but I think they’ve got away with things in the past that they won’t now with our new workplace safety laws, which I’m very passionate about. And for example, there was a case in Victoria, I believe, where a lawyer was working for government, and she was looking at material that was not nice to do with children, and she said, look, I’m not going to do that. We normally have a rotation I need to move, but they didn’t rotate her on. [00:40:00] She suffered a breakdown, PTSD, and eventually she had the nous and the support to take it to court and it became a criminal case. And that company was fined 450, 000, the government, 450, 000 dollars or more. So, there are huge lines out there to, but it’s become normalized to push somebody and push somebody to get results.
And I think that there’s young people are looking at workplaces nowadays and going, I don’t want to work there. I want to caring safe place where I can thrive, and I can have my ideas openly accepted or acknowledged. I want that acknowledgement. I am not working there.
Jeffery Wang: But how do you find the balance between one of these abusive cultures versus one that are, candid enough, that you would be able to, have, valuable feedback for growth. no growth happens within the comfort zone. So, you got to find a balance between, having [00:41:00] the kind of growth that you need in order to progress in your careers.
but not so much that you’re essentially being used, the churn and burn and be absolutely used and abused.
Elena Lennox: Look, if you never see your manager between one day and the next, or until it’s time for your assessment, performance management, that’s not a good place to be. And so ongoing, employee journey, the job design needs to be really clear. If you have a really clear job design and then it changes, your KPIs need to change. And so, the manager who manages well is out talking to people, noticing that you’re going on off on a tangent, not waiting until you’ve handed in this 20 page report that’s gone wrong. And so good management means hands on and, it’s not managers not being tested on their productivity per se, but on their managing and their allowing and growing of their team.
Jeffery Wang: Yeah, so managers [00:42:00] that understand the growth of the people that they’re leading. So, they’re actually serving the people that they’re leading rather than, just, reaping the benefits of their work. Okay. People don’t leave businesses, they leave people. Lesson number 10. So, at this part of our conversation, I generally love to throw a curveball across the fence.
And that is that we ask you, what have you unlearned? That is something that you believe to be absolutely true when you’re starting out, but learned that it’s just not, later.
Elena Lennox: Oh, look, because I was tough, I thought everybody else could be tough. I had a tough life, and I was fine and, toughen up princess. over yourself. And I recognized that, I was very lucky. And the more I say I’m lucky, the luckier I get. And I just didn’t understand the pressures that some people were under. And that was not until I was bullied myself did, I really recognize how it made you feel. and I had to take stress leave at one point. And again, there was the stigma of the stress [00:43:00] leave. So, to understand what people really feel when they are bullied. It took me to be bullied myself, and I can’t walk in somebody else’s shoes, but I can cut them a slack and support them on their journey.
And as an advocate for mental health, I really have to be open to walking with somebody.
Jeffery Wang: Yep. So, for you, you’ve learned that, after the experience of being bullied, that, other people just, I suppose don’t handle stress the same way that you do.
Elena Lennox: I think that I hadn’t recognized. I hadn’t been tested in the fire, if you like, of being the bullying, yes. And despite everything I did, and the harrying thing was that my boss didn’t listen, but my colleagues put their head down because they didn’t want it to happen to them. And so there was no support. So, it gave me a deeper understanding of how you can fall apart. And I’d go in in the morning feeling, my sort of other hippie self. Love, love, love, love. And then this person would just go like this. So, all my good [00:44:00] thinking and my thoughts didn’t really help, sadly.
Jeffery Wang: so, you develop a lot of empathy for people in that situation.
Elena Lennox: Just to recognise I don’t know. I don’t know what their context is. I don’t know if they’ve come from an abusive household. I don’t know if they have ADHD. Autism is a big thing coming up. More and more people are being diagnosed, and I don’t know where they’re coming from. Cut them a bit of slack.
Jeffery Wang: Ah, gotcha. So, stop being judgmental and, trying to cut them a bit of slack and, try and understand, walk a bit in their shoes to understand that situation before we judge them. So that’s a very valuable lesson to unlearn.
so, thank you so much for this. It’s been an absolute pleasure of a conversation.
thank you so much for sharing your 10 lessons of wisdom, Elena. And it’s been an absolute pleasure talking to you.
Elena Lennox: Fantastic, Jeffery.
Jeffery Wang: and we’ll finish on that note, [00:45:00] you’ve been listening to 10 Lessons Learned, the podcast that makes the world a little wiser, lesson by lesson. Today we’re joined by our special guest, Elena Lennox.
Thanks to our 10 lessons team that makes our show possible. Our episode editor, Cody Como, marketing and social media manager, Yi Wang, our producer, Robert Hossary, supported as always by the professional development forum. Don’t forget to leave us a review or comment. You can even email us at podcast at 10lessonslearned.
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Thanks to our 10 Lessons team that make our show possible: Our Episode Editor Codie Comeau, Marketing and social media managed by Yi Wang, and our Producer Robert Hossary. Sponsored as always by Professional Development Forum. You can find the www.professionaldevelopmentforum.org.

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