Conan J. Higgins – Crisis does not build character. It reveals it.

Diana White: Hello, and welcome to 10 Lessons Learned, where we talk to leaders and luminaries from all over the world to dispense wisdom for career, business, and life in order to make the world wiser lesson by lesson. My name is Diana White and I’m your host for this episode.

Our guest today is Dr. Conan Higgins. Dr. Higgins is an international business attorney, crisis leadership consultant, and Amazon number one best-selling author who has spent his career operating where most people only theorize. Welcome, Dr. Higgins. It’s very good to have you on the show.

Conan Higgins: Very much. I appreciate you having me.

Diana White: Well, listen, you, his career is, is illustrious to say the least. and I’m reading through the right? I’m reading through your bio and, and I’m just, I’m [00:01:00] picking out a couple of things because they’re striking out to me. Conan served as a joint terminal attack controller with the US Air Force Special Operations, including parachuting into enemy-held territory in Iraq and earning two Bronze Stars for Valor. T- talk to me about all of that.

Conan Higgins: Well, there are some with, I’m sure, far more illustrious stories that would be more engaging. But the tactical air control party is an element of Air Force Special Warfare. the joint terminal attack controller is a specialty within that, where people are essentially that. They are, they are.

It’s called joint because it’s, it’s just a joint environment, right? The Army, the Air Force, the Marines, the Navy, we all work together, when we go to war. The terminal attack is, you know, for those, um, who don’t know, it’s when the munition, whether it’s a missile, a bomb, artillery, is actually about to hit the [00:02:00] target.

And so, the control is, you know, God willing, I’m doing it properly and it’s hitting the enemy, not us. So taken together, I am, … I, I spent 25 years total in the Air Force, both active duty and the Guard, but was on the ground with, with manoeuvre elements, whether that was, in special operations or sometimes with a conventional Army unit.

And I was calling in, air- aircraft to, to prosecute targets or artillery or any, any number of things like that. helicopter gunships, in, in support of that ground commander’s scheme of manoeuvre. Is that militaristic enough for you?

Diana White: That, that is more than militaristic enough for me. And then, after doing all this service and putting your life on the line, then you shifted and did the ultimate challenge. Talk to me about that academic journey, your academic career, because that’s phenomenal as well.

Conan Higgins: Well,

Well, I have to, I have to kind of back up to [00:03:00] move forward. So, when I left active duty and joined the Air Guard, I had to get a day job, and that day job was as a state trooper in Washington State. I did that for a number of years and then moved over to the city of Lakewood, where I was an undercover detective and a member of the Lakewood SWAT team, but a team leader of the metro, the Pierce County Metro SWAT team.

And it was on one of those call-outs, if you’ve ever spent any time up in the Puget Sound region, it, it only rains from early September to late August, and this was one of those times when it was about… That was a joke. It was about 38 degrees. We were standing in the rain for about four hours, and I just realized that, you know, I don’t want to do this when I’m 40 years old.

So, I got home and, and, following up on a, a conversation I’d had with my folks, I, I called my mom and said, “Yeah, Ma, I’m, I’m going to go to law school.” And so, I did. but I was jugglibuthe, the, the career, the Air Guard, constant, [00:04:00], deployments. I was married with two young kids. I mean, you know, anyone who has any one of those things knows that, that it can be a handful.

And I was, you know, selfishly trying to do it all. But I did finish law school. I, I did have to study abroad. I took my books and essentially studied by correspondence. I, have a picture somewhere of me studying federal tax law under a, under a poncho with a red lens flashlight up in the Korngal.

And the Korngal may strike, some folks as, you know, familiar. They’ve seen that area in the, the movie Lone Survivor, where it talked about, Marcus Luttrell and his team, and it’s not exactly friendly territory. But I did it, and I graduated, and within a year of, of finishing law school, I was back in school at the University of Liverpool in England to get an advanced legal degree.

And the reason for that is because I’m a later in life lawyer, and I felt that I needed to do something to jumpstart my career. People would look at me as being older and, [00:05:00] just automatically expect a certain level of competence and experience, and I didn’t have that.

So, by getting the advanced legal degree, I would at least have more knowledge, if not experience. And going to the University of Liverpool, made sense to me for a couple reasons. One, it’s a very prestigious school. Two, it’s an international degree from a non-US school. And it– having, that credential really helped me out as, I then began to work in Africa and, the Middle East, and the British legal system, holds some cachet there.

It, it gives me some credibility instantly just by reason of having that degree Without going too far in depth in that, I, came back to the US to help some of my buddies from the military run a coffee company called, Black Rifle Coffee Company, if you’ve ever heard of that. And, by their own admission, they were a marketing company that happened to sell [00:06:00] coffee.

And so, many hilarious, some very over-the-top videos that, that were circulated. but it all helped to promote a product that they quickly, found themselves unable to control. And, and by their own admission, they, they didn’t know what they were doing at the beginning, and so they brought a few of us on to help out with that.

And I helped with, all the processes and procedures that go into turning a great idea into a great company. And eventually they did go public, and so that was, that was great. What they did for me as a, as a bonus one year was to send me to Harvard to be, certified as a mediator and a negotiation master through the Harvard Program on Negotiation, which is a program that, that combines both the business school and the law school to kind of get the best of both, right?

, good negotiations have to be legally sound, but they also have to have, you know, some sound business acumen as well. later I did decide that, geez, that wasn’t enough, [00:07:00] and I completed a, a PhD in international law and treaty law. it’s interesting to note that I had submitted my dissertation for really kind of a, a rough draft overview, how, “What do you think?” To my advisors and, they were not favorably impressed, and so I was a little bit despondent. And while I was sitting there kind of pouting, I said, “Well, I’m going to take a break. I’ll come back in a bit with some fresh eyes, and I’ll get back to work on it.” And it was in that, interim that I started writing, the book, The Maverick’s Blueprint, which is the book that you mentioned, did go to number one in four categories on Amazon.

, and, in four business categories. But all of that and a, and a couple dollars will get you a cup of coffee at 7-Eleven, I think. So that’s where we are.

Diana White: Well, I would just say, viewers and listeners, I, I think that we should have a, a separate dictionary where you do have the [00:08:00] picture of what you think this definition is. And if we could do that, if we had determination, Dr. Higgins, your picture would be right there in that dictionary for determination.

That is a, a- an amazing journey and story. So many different areas, you could have just said, “Okay, this is good enough,” and it wasn’t good enough. And I, and I’m so glad it wasn’t, because I, I- we wouldn’t, we wouldn’t have you where you are now. We wouldn’t have the book. We wouldn’t have your other series that we haven’t talked about yet that, that shows your softer side.

So, I, I am just, I’m so thrilled. So now all of this that you’ve gone through, looking back now, what would you tell your 30-year-old self?

Conan Higgins: Oh, stop and enjoy it a little more. You know, there’s, it, I- 30 years ago was, you know, you kindly joked that it was six months ago, and in some ways, it does feel like that. But in others, the reality of just a, a hard [00:09:00] physical life does take its toll. You know, there’s aches and pains. But, you know, there are also some things that, could I have known ahead of time that this was coming up, I might have planned a little more time to stop and smell the roses, if, if you will.

My, my dad wrote me a letter as, as he was on his deathbed, and one of the things that he said at the ending, he said, “When you have all the champagne that you can drink and all the steak that you can eat, stop and enjoy it.” And I would tell 30-year-old me, “Hey, even if it’s a hamburger, go eat it someplace that, that makes you relax and, and enjoy it a little better.”

So that, that’s kind of the, I mean, the one big thing. Because I wouldn’t want to give too much away because it’s been an adventure, and I, I do say that life is too short to live a boring one. So, I wouldn’t want to prep myself, to be expecting things because the- when they took me by s- by surprise, that’s really what formed, the basis for, for my book, how I dealt with it.

Diana White: That, that is an amazing outlook [00:10:00] on life. Um, one of the best answers to the what would I tell my 30-year-old self that I feel like we’ve had on this show, so thank you for that. And we’re go right on into lesson number one, and these lessons are pretty cool because they’re, they’re kind of cryptic, and I love it.

Lesson 1: The Signal Was Always There

Diana White: So, lesson one: the signal was always there. We’ve got Disclosure Day out right now. Mixed reviews on that, but it, it, it gave me the chills with that. Like, what signal? So, tell me about this lesson.

Conan Higgins: Well, think about any movie where an asteroid hits the Earth and, and, you know, it’s a, it’s an extinction-level event. They knew it was coming, right? W- we’re, we’re on a planet flying through space. There are other things flying through space, and presumably they know about it before it becomes a, a real problem.

That’s no different in business. There are very few really surprising crises that happen, and the leaders who miss them are… they’re [00:11:00] optimizing for the day they are in, not the day they’re heading toward. So, having a plan, preparing for the worst, hoping for the best, however you want to phrase that, a lot of times people don’t want to spend the time, effort, or energy to, to prepare for the worst, right?

Because with limited time, resources, people, money, et cetera, they’re going to do as much as they can today, and we’ll worry about tomorrow. I think.

the saying goes that today has enough to worry about, why borrow from tomorrow?

Diana White: Very true. Very true. It’s, it’s always fascinated me, you know, I, I am in the entrepreneurial space as well, and I coach entrepreneurs. And I always see this, it’s almost a, a, a codependent kind of relationship where you have people that are starting businesses that they know that this is, this is a journey that may be difficult and there may be failures and successes.

But they’ve been taught kind of by the ecosystem, “But don’t look at that stuff. Everything is roses.” Especially if an [00:12:00] investor talks to you. Everything is roses. There’s nothing wrong. Everything’s going to be right. And so how, how do you, you take that duality of, oh, I’m, I’m the one sitting up at 3:00 in the morning knowing, you know, what I’m up against and, you know, how do I differentiate myself from competitors, and how do I deal with this particular incident that may happen down the road?

But in the morning, I have a meeting with, with my board, and I have to smile and act like there’s nothing that could go wrong.

Conan Higgins: W- 100%. And, and, doing the right amount of work means also looking at when you have that meeting with the board and they start asking you the hard questions, rather than deflect or talk about something else, answer them directly. “Yes, we missed our numbers. Yes, we are behind schedule. Yes, we are over budget,” whatever the problem is.

, but then understand and be able to explain why, and also y- how you’re going to get well, how you’re going to fix this. Or if you’ve already started, great, start lining out what you’re [00:13:00] doing that’s going to get the, the system back on track. I think that’s important, and I don’t think that that’s something that people necessarily are trained to do.

I think that a lot of times business schools teach problem-solving as though you, you have a building on fire, you drive up in your shiny fire truck, you hook the hose up and, you know, to use the fireman’s vernacular, you put the wet on the red until it goes out, you get in your truck and you go home.

But the reality is a lot of us find ourselves in the position of leadership because somebody quit, got fired, you know, God forbid there was a medical emergency or whatever the problem is, you’re now the person in charge and you’re on the second floor and the building’s fully engulfed and they’re storing propane, you know, right by the emergency exit.

So good luck, right? That’s, that’s I think the, the problem that a lot of people don’t expect is when they get put into a position that’s not favorable. And those business school, lessons are, are designed, in a perfect world, assuming, you know, set amount of, of [00:14:00] resources and, and a set amount of time.

And while that’s somewhat true, you do have a set amount of resources, you do have a set amount of time, it’s usually not favorable when everything’s in flames around you.

Lesson 2: The Plan Dies on First Contact

Diana White: That is so true. Now, lesson number two, I lo- I love this one because w- we hear so many, anecdotes about planning, and plan right, and measure twice, cut once, all those things. Your lesson two is, ” The plan dies on first contact. The framework survives.” Dig into that one for me.

Conan Higgins: Gladly.

, I think that it’s aspirational when, leaders or people say that, you know, rather, gleefully that, “Hey, we’re going to rise to the occasion,” and that’s not true, right? They fall to the level of their preparation. They fall to the training of their team. And if you try to memorize a checklist, in, in, I guess, in a vacuum, so to speak, [00:15:00] it’s real easy to freeze when reality doesn’t match it, right?

But if you internalize a framework, then you can more readily adapt under pressure. If you know what right is supposed to look like, you can pretty quickly pick out what’s not right. And also, if you know your job, if you know your people, and you know the goal that everybody’s working towards, you can better understand how you’re off track, and, and get back on track.

You know, think of it, you know, you’re taking a long road trip, and nothing looks familiar, nothing looks like what you thought you were supposed to be passing. Your signposts that say you’re supposed to turn left don’t materialize. You might not be on the right track anymore. So, if you go back to your directions that you hand wrote, none of it makes sense because none of it matters anymore.

You’re 30 minutes in the wrong direction. But if you understand that you should be heading west and you’re heading north, that’s the framework that I’m talking about. Understand the direction you’re supposed to be going. Understand what right looks like. Understand what it looks like if you’re off course, because you can then more quickly adapt and get back to it.

Lesson 3: Calm Is Contagious

Diana White: I want [00:16:00] everyone to save what he just said in some kind of voice note so that you can play it over and over again, because that was pretty doggone powerful. Lesson number three, and this is powerful too. I- this is going to be one of those episodes, everyone. Strap in.

Lesson number three, calm is contagious. So is panic.

Conan Higgins: I-

think that’s true. I think that that, that, panic and fear can spread faster than the flu, and everybody’s feeling the, the pressure usually, unless they’re unclear on the, what’s going on around them, and that happens. Sometimes people, certainly in my line of work, have been asleep and, you know, take when we’ve been, in, in combat.

We have to sleep sometime. You can’t stay awake for the entire thing always. And, and, and other times, it, it– whatever the case is, somebody’s coming into it with a little less, understanding or comprehension of not only what we’re facing, but what we need to do. And so, as a leader, being [00:17:00] calm doesn’t mean you’re ignoring the problem.

But if you notice, I’ve even slowed down the way I’m talking. I’m being very purposeful. I’m trying to bring the room down. Why? Because that resonates. People see that. They see you as the leader not getting emotional, making fact-based decisions, inquiring from people what their read is. What are we supposed to be doing?

Okay, then why aren’t you doing it? Good. Get to it. And I’ll talk a little more about that piece in a second.

Diana White: Okay. It makes sense. And, and, and I see we are,

Lesson 4: Crisis Does Not Build Character

Diana White: because lesson number four, which thank you, because I’ve always believed this. I’ve never put it to words. Crisis does not build character, it reveals it.

Conan Higgins: Well, that’s it isn’t it? I think that that, um, the decisions people make under pressure are actually made long before the pressure arrives, and this kind of goes back to the signal was always there. people who prepare… And, and let’s, let’s, let’s [00:18:00] talk about a, a, a pro boxer. You know, it’s not me walking in off the street saying, “This looks fun.

Let me try it.” You know, they are, they are, many of those fights are both, you know, both competitors are relatively equally matched, but the one who is better conditioned, has better aerobic, capacity, they’re going to be able to outlast the problem, and there the problem is getting punched in the face.

Well, life will punch you in the face. And so, when, when that crisis happens, how one reacts to it speaks more about the steps they’ve taken before they ever got into that ring to start taking the punches than, than it does about how they’re taking them and, and, and punching back. the training, the, the, the, the plan, the team that, that we surround ourselves with is more important before it becomes a, a matter of, of crisis.

You can’t, you can’t paint the rocket after it’s taken off. So, let’s get things set before we go, and, and usually that has a better outcome.

Lesson 5: Decide Who You Are Before the Phone Rings

Diana White: Beautifully [00:19:00] said. Beautifully said. Now, this one threw me for a loop. Lesson number five, because I’d never had an existential thought about this before.

Lesson number five, decide who you are before the phone rings.

Conan Higgins: Okay.

that’s, g- give me a, give me a chance to really break that down. Mental rehearsal is not optional for anyone whose work matters. the first time you face a, a crisis is the wrong time to figure out who you’re going to be in it. Similarly, opportunity, and I don’t think I’m the only person who has, weathered the storm of good times, bad times, and sometimes those bad times lead to some pretty lean times, and by that, the door knocks, you open it, and there’s opportunity. Know who you are. Remember your value. Remember the things that you were doing to increase your hourly rate, to increase your marketability, to [00:20:00] increase your, value to a team if they’re thinking about bringing you on.

Because in those moments where perhaps you’ve been a little, thin on the, on the wallet or on the resources, you don’t want to give yourself away for nothing, right? So that’s a chance for opportunity to really take the time, think about it. The phone has rung. You’re on the phone. They’re interested in you.

Okay, but remember who you are, right? you need to decide, okay, similarly, but on the flip side of the coin, I, I really need this. So, I, even though I feel that I am worth this much more per hour, I’m going to take this because it gets me back in the game. It gets me back doing what I need to be doing. It, it keeps the lights on, and we’re eating hamburger instead of cat food.

, you know, that’s important, I think.

Diana White: Right. You’re absolutely right. And I would also kind of add that, you know, inherently we have several different banks, like, in our lives, right? We’ve got our bank of, of morality, that, that [00:21:00] cup of morality that should floweth over hopefully. we’ve got our, our bank of, family and, and work-life balance and, and love and self-actualization, right?

And so, I, I find I, in my own self-actualization, I’ve been finding that now I’m measuring things against if I take this to fill this cup, am I sacrificing and emptying a little bit of another cup? And if I take this gig, um, because I need the money, even though I know that this goes against my moral code, what am I giving up to gain this interim thing?

And that’s a delicate balance, and it’s different for everybody. And someone else’s line in the sand may be drawn 80 yards back as opposed to the other person’s line in the sand. I do, I do think it’s individual, but I think it’s an exercise that needs to be done nonetheless, right? You have to figure out, [00:22:00] what am I up to get this?

Um, I, I loved that lesson. I loved it.

Conan Higgins: Absolutely. And I, if I could just add one more thought on that. you know, it’s easy to say, “Okay, the phone’s ringing and I’m in my office by myself.” But a lot of times things happen, that phone rings and you’re in a crowd of people, or maybe that crisis is already underway. And so, it, it, it is important, and it goes back to being calm.

What am I hearing? Actually, process the information. If it’s a problem, get the four corners of it so you know really what you’re looking at. If it’s an opportunity, make sure that you understand it so that you don’t react prematurely or miss it entirely.

Diana White: I love what you just said about if it’s a problem, getting the four corners of it. I, I think that that is in itself, an hour-long 10 Lessons Learned episode talking about the fact that when you see a problem, you can’t just look at it from one angle. You have to get into every nook and cranny of that [00:23:00] problem to figure out how to solve it.

Conan Higgins: Exactly

Lesson 6: Give People a Job

Diana White: Words of wisdom for sure. Lesson number six: give people a job.

Conan Higgins: Absolutely. in chaos, idle hands become problems and panicked minds become dangerous. So even a small task can restore, some sense of agency and kind of stabilize the team. And if you’ll indulge me, I’ll tell this quick story that I think, encapsulates this. When my son was 10 days old, he had some health problems and, making this a short story, he actually, died in my hands and I resuscitated him in my kitchen.

And my wife was absolutely freaking out because I was actually supposed to have been gone on military, duty on, drill weekend for the Guard. But I had called, and being younger and not really understanding the F- Family Medical Leave [00:24:00] Act, I’d asked my commander, “Geez, you know, do you think I could sit this one out?”

And he’s thinking, “Well, yeah, I mean, you’re entitled.” But I didn’t know, so I still asked and he said, “Yes, go ahead.” So, I was home, and that’s good because my wife, as I said, absolutely, panicked. But holding the boy, directing her to call 911, put it on speakerphone, and repeat everything I say to the dispatcher, gave her a sense of worth, of value.

She couldn’t help what was going on with my buddy, my little guy, but she could help the process, and so she calmed down. EMS showed up. He was breathing again. They said, “Well, you know, he still needs to go to the hospital for full eval. it’s going to be cheaper if you take him than if he rides in the ambulance, so we’ll see you there,” type of thing.

, I started to get in the car and drive because, you know, remember at the time, I was a cop. I guess that wasn’t obvious to everybody, but I was a, a state trooper, and we pride ourselves on [00:25:00] actually being competent drivers. and my wife very quickly said, “I’m not comfortable being in the back seat with him if something else happens.”

So, I said, “Great. Drive.” And I sat in the back, and this is more of giving, her a job. I told her the best way to get to the hospital quickly without, you know, racing and causing more problems, and then I told her, “Drop us off here. I’m going in with him, and meet us at the, at the ER station.” And, and so that helped her to feel, I think throughout it looking back, l- less traumatized by it and more like she actually contributed to his wellbeing.

And, and she did, absolutely. I’m not belittling that at all. But if there’s not somebody taking charge, then the situation will usually do that for you, and it’s not usually to your benefit.

Diana White: Yeah. I, I wholeheartedly agree. Um, a very, um, traumatizing story, but I love, I love the fact that as a family unit, um, you know, you, you [00:26:00] both played your part as, as parents. You both said, “Okay, I know that I can do this part. I’m going to give you this part. You got to take it, and you got to do it because there’s a life on the line.”

And there were no arguments. There were no questions, I think. And, and you can tell me this. You’ve, you’ve been in harrowing situations like this way more than I have. The worst thing in the world you can have somebody ask when you’re in an emergency situation and somebody’s stepped up to take charge and is leading, is somebody to stop everything to go, “But why?” w- Yeah. w-

Conan Higgins: Yeah.

Well, I mean, exactly. And, and y- you know, answering that question requires a little finesse. and, and certainly it is situationally dependent. if we’re struggling with setting up a projector for a briefing, that’s much different than, when your 10-day-old son is, is not breathing and, and, you know, life is in the balance.

So, you’re, you’re right. the why of it is, well, because that cord [00:27:00] doesn’t belong to that machine is much different than because he’s going to die. So, yeah, 100%.

Diana White: Well,

kudos to both of you because that was some really good fast acting.

Conan Higgins: Well, thank you. And just so everybody knows, he, he did survive. He is still my little guy, although he’s a, a big kid now. He’s 24. He’s graduated from college, and he’s working as a geologist in North Georgia

Diana White: Oh,

I love it. I absolutely love it. Lesson number seven. Is- and this one is very rare. Again, I see a lot of lessons. We’ve done over 150 episodes at 10 Lessons of Pop, everyone, so we’ve seen a lot of lessons. But man, this one really got me. I, because I’d never seen it before.

Lesson 7: Train for the Day, Not for the Drill

Diana White: Lesson number seven: train for the day, not for the drill.

I immediately got it, and I was like, “D, that’s amazing,” but I want you to break it down,

Conan.

Conan Higgins: I mean, [00:28:00]

I mean, y- training matters before it matters, right? Just being obvious for a second. But by the time you need the skill, it’s too late to try to acquire it. So, let’s use that boxing analogy. Even though you are training every day, even though you are in the ring sparring with your partner, when you get to the actual fight, let’s, let’s even ramp it up more.

It’s, it’s your first time getting a shot at the title. The nerves, the adrenaline, the anxiety, that makes it a different, a different situation, doesn’t it? And it’s… And, and so you’re not, you haven’t trained for the drill, which is just to stand and practice your punches and look for weakness. You are training for that day, that moment in the sun when, when it really all comes down to everything you’ve brought to the table.

And if you’re short of a few, tools in the tool belt, y- it’s too late, right? I think about what I said about, rising to the occasion versus falling to the level of preparation or training, and that’s 100% true, and it’s right back to this. We can all sit around and do a, a discussion about, well, what do we do if we’re over [00:29:00] budget and we’re behind schedule?

And we can talk about that. but if you don’t actually work on it and maybe have drills in your, in your workplace or, or, you know, more tabletops, bringing in the people and actually running, you know, kind of a full scale exercise before that really happens, it, it’s too late when it is happening.

When, when a… You know, let’s say, a software company finds out after they’ve shipped the product that there’s a bug in it or, you know, a favored, the… You know, I’ve, I’ve had some clients who really their business hinges on one big, big customer, and something happens to that customer, what are you going to do?

Right? That’s keeping families fed, that’s keeping the, the doors open. So, it, it matters, right? Far before it actually matters, if that makes sense.

Diana White: It does. And, and that’s the reason why this particular lesson struck me, is because it’s so applicable with so many different things. I took it down to, like, the, the, the minuscule. I took it [00:30:00] down to, you know, somebody who is anxiously, and ferociously training, um, and practicing for an interview or, or practicing to take a test, and they’re practicing for that one moment in time, which is important.

It’s very important, right? But, if the bus that they were supposed to take to get them to the location to take the test or, or d- or have the interview, if that bus is late or doesn’t show up, they’re totally thrown off. They’re totally thrown off, and that messes with what they were originally practicing for, right?

So, to me, in my mind, that was don’t just train for the one thing. Don’t just focus on that one thing. You got to focus on everything that leads up to that thing, because if anything goes wrong, you now have a plan to take care of it and, and you’re not, in chaos or panicking. And, and, and it really changed my perspective.

Conan Higgins: I would agree with you, and I would say that, you know, a, a perfect [00:31:00] e- example in, in my life, is the fact that, I only made the dean’s list one semester in, in, law school. And so, at graduation, there were many people getting academic awards, and good for them. but some of those people who were great in law school could not pass the bar.

And, you know, that’s, that’s the whole reason you went to law school was to practice law, then that’s, that’s really not helpful, is it?

Lesson 8: Relationships Are the Only Currency That Compounds

Diana White: That’s true. It’s so true. Lesson number eight. Oh man, I love this one too. Lesson number eight, relationships are the only currency that compounds.

Conan Higgins: 100%.

100%. I mean, I, I feel like, it speaks for itself, but in business, contracts open doors. It’s the relationships that keep them open. and I would even say that sometimes it’s those relationships that get you invited to even talk about the contract.

This is true for me, in combat, this is true in law enforcement, this is true in [00:32:00] international law. I have people that I know from around the world that when things have gone sideways, this is not some cold call because I remember them from a LinkedIn contact. This is because we’ve worked together, and we still maintain contact.

We still maintain the relationship. We’re not having backyard barbecues. I’m not at their kid’s birthday. But I know their kids’ names, they know mine. We, we know each other and because we’ve had that, interaction, and there is a true relationship, and I’m not just talking some passive, I’m here, you’re here.

But really, “Hey, what can I do to help you help the process so that we can all be done and, and go home safely?” If it’s in combat or as a cop, or, you know, with a little more scratch in the pocket because we finished early and we got that bonus we were all trying for. Those are the things that have helped me and, and, you know, in my book, I do touch on some of those relationships that enabled me to solve problems that were pretty difficult just simply from a logistics standpoint.

[00:33:00] And, and, and I think it’s important to remember that our whole life is based on relationships or the lack thereof. And so, we can invest, in gold, we can invest in, any kind of commodity, but the relationships we invest in enable us to get the furthest the fastest.

Diana White: I have been a relationship builder pretty much my entire life, and I, I already understood the importance. Um, and I, and I love the way you express it, and I hope that, people that, consume this show understand the importance of that. You know, this is 10 Lessons Learned. We’ve been trying to give you advice so that you don’t have to knock your head up against the wall the way us old hats did.

We want you to be able to just go in and say, “Okay, somebody’s already been there, done that. I’m not going to go down that path. I’m going to choose a better path.” But if, if we could leave you with anything, and we’re not even finished with these lessons yet, we’ve got two more good ones to go. But [00:34:00] relationship building, authentic relationship building, being there for other people and, and being vulnerable enough to let them be there for you, how you build that, that wealth that everybody talks about, and I’m not talking about money.

You know? That’s, that’s so powerful so powerful. So powerful.

Lesson 9: Read the Room Before You Read the Brief

Diana White: Lesson number nine: Read the room before you read the brief. Tell us about that one.

Conan Higgins: Well, has, has anybody been in a room and looked around like, “What, what, who, who do they think they’re talking to?” I don’t ever like being the person they’re referring to as n- not getting it, right? Being a little tone deaf to the audience. And you can say the same thing the same way in three different rooms and receive three different, reactions.

The reality for me has been that cultural intelligence, is not a soft skill, right? It’s, it’s the operating layer, beneath every cross-border deal that I’ve done. every [00:35:00] inter-agency conversation. You know, I represent, defense, contractors and, and so there are many different federal agencies that, you know, each one has its own culture and, and you need to be able to navigate it.

But every m- multinational team that I’ve been a part of is just that. These are people from different areas, of the globe, different walks of life. We think about things differently, we view things differently, we process things differently. So, having that cultural intelligence allows me, and has allowed me, to view the differences as, as areas where I need to figure out w- you know, again, if you use a jigsaw puzzle as the e- example, and where does that puzzle fit?

because it does fit, and you can force it somewhere, and maybe it works for that time, but then when you’re trying to get everything done, you’ve, set yourself up for failure. And I do think that it’s important that we understand that people come from different walks of life, that people have learned things differently.

That, especially on a multinational team, y- not everybody’s there to do the same job that I’m [00:36:00] doing. similarly, I don’t have the time, interest, or inclination to learn in great detail what they’re doing or what maybe you’re doing. But you’re there because you’re supposed to be competent and, and professional.

Great. Help me to help you to help the project.

Lesson 10: Authority Is Not the Same as Judgment

Diana White: Love it. Our final lesson, lesson number 10.

10. Authority is not the same as judgment. Tell me about that.

Conan Higgins: Well, the person with the title is not always the person with the answer. I think we’ve all seen that, right? and knowing the difference between what separates a leader from a follower, wearing leader’s clothes is very important. And let’s, let’s look at any one of the lessons that we discussed already today where, the situation went from normal or at least manageable into absolute chaos, pandemonium, you know, that building on fire, if you will.

You know, again, as I said, that person, who finds themselves on the second [00:37:00] floor with the fully engulfed building has been put into the project or the position or, whatever situation it calls for because somebody with the title before them didn’t cut it or had to leave or whatever, right?

So, it doesn’t always mean that the person that replaces that, leader, let’s just use program manager for, for just ease of discussion. a new program manager comes in and has no idea what your team has been doing, has no idea w- the problems you faced over the last three months. Well, they have the title, don’t they?

They have the authority, but not necessarily the judgment, not the wherewithal to be ab- to be able to optimize what the team is doing, especially if it’s been suboptimal and they don’t know what right looks like. How do they possibly get it back on track when they don’t even know what the track is supposed to look like?

Those are the kind of things that I’m talking about and, and it’s important I think any time. If you knew that you had to walk across a minefield, this whole field is mined and you have to get from this side to [00:38:00] that side, but we’ve helped you, all right? We put little flags on top of all the mines.

It might behove you to actually look and see where those are before you just start walking, and it’s amazing to me how many people don’t do that, to their detriment.

Diana White: Unfortunately, it’s not amazing to me, which is so sad.

Conan Higgins: Oh,

Okay, fair enough. Yeah

Diana White: lessons have been phenomenal, but I’m going to, I’m going to ask you, what are you working on now and where can we find you? But I would be remiss if I didn’t say please talk to us about, we know that you’re an Amazon best-selling author and you’re going to talk about your new book, but we got to talk about your other passion for writing.

Please talk a little bit about that

Conan Higgins: Absolutely. So, I am the author of, the series of children’s books, based on Princess Gumdrop. And Princess Gumdrop is, a character that I made up for, well, my oldest daughter when she was little, and then have [00:39:00] since told it to all my kids as bedtime stories. And, and they’re good adventures. You know, I try to, to, to put some kind of lesson in there about, listening or, or helping or sharing.

, and it, it is also available on Amazon. but the stories are… I mean, I suppose any kid, you know, up to about eight years old might appreciate them. but they’re really… I, you know, again, I was writing it for my, for my daughter. I was, I was crafting these stories for my daughter, and I wanted her to get a feeling of that she can do anything, go anywhere, that life is an adventure.

Bring the people you want to share those with, who will also help you get back home, because Princess Gumdrop has to make, peanut butter sandwiches every day for everybody in the kingdom, and, you can’t do that if you’re not in the kitchen at, at the time you’re supposed to be making those. And then riding around on her pink big girl bike with the white basket on the front and the little bell, ching ching.

, and I think that, that, that helped me just kind of when my, my daughter, you- I now have two [00:40:00] grandsons, and she was asking why I’d never written those down. And so that was the, the genesis of actually putting pen to paper and saying, “Okay, I’m going to, memorialize these, and you can hand them down.”

And it just made sense to, to publish those. That maybe other people could, could benefit from the lessons that Princess Gumdrop, experiences in every chapter.

Diana White: Oh my gosh, I love that so much. And so, you go from Princess Gumdrop to your latest title, which is vastly different. Let’s talk.

Conan Higgins: is. It is. Yeah, it’s, the, the book is, is titled The Maverick’s Blueprint: Crisis Leadership for an Unstable World. And then the subtitle is Battle Tested Frameworks from 25 Plus Years of International Crisis Management. that’s it right there.

I mentioned earlier to internalize a framework versus a checklist memorized.

, why is that? Because in crises, fine motor skills go [00:41:00] out the window, right? That’s just physiological fact. your mind is racing, blood is pumping, and being able to do big movements is, is sometimes all you can do. You can’t do the fine movements. If you think about trying to fix a watch while the world is burning down around you, that’s probably not going to happen.

But you can grab the watch and the tools and get out of the building, and that’s what I mean by fine versus gross motor skills. Those frameworks that I talk about, one of them is the detect framework that I’ve developed, and that’s more of a, helping you, the, the practitioner to recognize that the signal was always there because you are looking for those problems.

Your, your team, the people that you’re working with are doing the job. If you’re in the leadership position… You know, I use a boat analogy. if we’re all on the ship together, the, the leader, the captain of the ship is, is not steering the ship, right? Somebody else can steer the ship. The captain needs to be down in the map room, um, [00:42:00] plotting the course, knowing where the problems are, making a plan to get around them, and still get there on time because, you know, we’re carrying, perishable cargo, if, if you want to continue that analogy.

The leader has to direct the, the actions and the, and the direction itself of the rest of the team, and that’s where a framework like detect can help to, to understand, what does it look like when things start to go wrong, and what do we do? Now, going back to the scenario where you find yourself on that second floor, the building’s burning.

There’s another framework that I use. I call it the rapid, framework, and that is for, responding to crisis when you find yourself in the middle of it and have not had the time to, to plan appropriately. And that’s not always a failure of the leaders’, on the leader’s part. There have been many stakeholders for whom I have gone to, to work who aren’t interested in spending some money before the shovels, break the ground, so to speak, to really lay all those things out and understand truly what their contingency [00:43:00] problems might be and, and establish a, a, an appropriate reserve.

And in those cases, you, you know, you can argue as much as you want. At some point, you either get relieved or you just, you know, execute smartly. And so, when those things happen, it’s not the time to say, “I told you so. I knew this was going to go wrong.” It’s you have to deal with it. And, and in the book, and it, it actually ties in pretty similar, as I said before, about those relationships kind of, making things happen where maybe- They wouldn’t have otherwise.

, the rapid framework allowed me to, to solve a problem that was largely, logistical in, in its solution, but w- would’ve been catastrophic if we could not have, have figured it out in a, in a timely manner. Finally, with my, PhD, I wrote, if anybody’s interested, it was base erosion profit shifting in the digital m- markets of emerging, economies in sub-Saharan Africa.

And, in Africa, it’s, it’s… I mean, [00:44:00] I’m not being, foolish here, I’m saying it’s huge. The, the, the continent is enormous, and countries from one end to the other aren’t the same, right? Even neighbors aren’t the same. They do things differently. And so sometimes when you’re having those, negotiations and you’re working, even if you’re working together, you know, we aren’t necessarily, empowered to, to bring the whole solution.

We have to get, you know, approval from higher, or we just don’t have the infrastructure to, to implement it. And so, the constrained cooperation model is a framework that I developed where, countries, entities, people can work together even though they don’t necessarily have all the answers for their own part of the problem.

And I think that’s important because it allows, and fosters better, teamwork and team solution-solving. And those frameworks, like I said, are in the book. And this book is not written as a textbook. This book is written as a practitioner’s field guide, and I think that very often [00:45:00] people will read it and they’ll say, “Man, I knew that.”

Great. Good. You’re ahead of the game. others will say, “Okay, that’s a different way to look at it.” That’s good, too. but there is something to take away for everybody who reads the book because if nothing else, it just reminds you of the person you’ve been. Get back to it, right? Get back to the being the person who, who listens to others, reads the room, figures out what- where things can go wrong before it happens, and then solves the problem.

Diana White: I think that is the recipe for the best communication and the best win-win situation ever if everyone came to the table with that mindset. If everyone came to the negotiation table after reading your book, I think this would be a world better world.

Conan Higgins: Absolutely

Diana White: do. Well, listen, I would love to thank our guest, Dr. Conan Higgins, for his lessons with us today and for his service to the United [00:46:00] States of America. Thank you so much for your service.

Conan Higgins: Thank you very much, Diana, and I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

Diana White: It’s been an absolute pleasure. You’ve been listening to 10 Lessons Learned. This episode is produced by Robert Hossary. Please tell us what you think of today’s lessons. you can email us at podcast@10lessonslearned.com.

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